On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Jon Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi John > hey jb, > > It is amazing to me, not really, the vitriol expressed by some on this > thread in particular. Ok, I don't wanna be all mean or anything, but make sense please. Don't say, "it's amazing to me" and then "not really" like that. It's bad strunk and white and that sorta redundantly bad writing is just NOt tolerated. I'm tellin' ya. These guys are into QUALITY. ya know? Rhetorically speaking, that is. You gotta deliver the goods man, or it's all "just shut up and lissen". > First let me say to you John dogmatic statements > flourish on this list. What can't be tolerated is challenging the opinion, > or more to the point,the egos, of some of on the list. > > Whew! You said a mouthful there. But once again, critical old me has to ask, "what good is challenging ego?" I mean, doesn't that just create more ego? So I don't know if attacking back is apropos. Of course, we all do, but just saying. > Most of my statements have been countered only with childish outbursts of > emotion, and dogmatic statements. At first I was quite impressed with the > way this group conducted itself, and many still, handle disagreement in an > exemplary fashion, you included. Well thanks, but no thanks. I'm just socially inclined against compliments. Please don't offer me any. Ask mary and marsha, the only ones with any complete brains on this list and they'll tell you, "john doesn't do compliments well". But that's beside the point, isn't it. The problem is ... coping. Its weird, isn't it? That coping with words on a screen should mean any sort of pragmatic difficulty or problem in life. That little squiggles could change your worldview. But it's true. And almost magical. And I guess that's what keeps us hanging around, begging for more. > Most groups when you get down to the > nitty-gritty of politics or religions come unglued and start hurling > accusations, rather than discussing the issues in a logical manner. You've > seen the ad hominen attack, rather than using that energy in defensive of a > position in civil discourse. You see anger, rage, bias, temper tantrums > covering down right ignorance. Fulminations against a person and slander > masquerading as intelligence, learning or wisdom. > > Well you seem to have more experience than me. I'm sorta shy, in a way. I don't know about "most groups". I've been involved in a few internet forums, off and on, but I'm pretty reclusive and monogamous in my own way. You mentioneda earlier, for instance me "subscribing to you blog". It reminded me of an old joke. The joke went like this: A young man walks into the office of an old miser and asks him, "excuse me sir, could you spare any change for the poor?" And the old miser looks him in the eye and replies, "young man, do you realize I have I widowed mother, with no income, living destitute, to provide for? AND I have a sister who's husband left her and four children with NOTHING to sustain them. Why I even have a brother who is crippled and unable to even FEED himself. Did you realize THAT?" The young man stammers, "n..no sir. I didn't realize..." "Exactly!" declares the miser, "And if I don't give them any help, what makes you think I'd give some to you?!" Point being, jb, I got lovely writing daughters who blog and facebook and would love to have some more interaction with their ole dad, and I don't subscribe to THEIR scribbles because I'm so obsessed with what goes on here. What makes you think I'd subscribe to yours? No offense intended, of course. But I feel pulled here and nowhere else. > But I shall carry on till I tire of the embicility witnessed today. > > ah, the noble warrior pose. I like it. Go for it dude. Lets see how much energy you got. > So let me ask any of you who think I don't understand moq...what is the > postition of differing views? How is such conflict to be dealt with, and > how > can a civil society be ordered by those who can't be civil on a discussion > list. > > You forgot to make your period a question mark. not to quibble, or anything. as to your broader questions, my advice is to wait and see. It'll all come clear in its own time. As far as your "civility" question goes... I have one thing to say, so listen carefully... metaphysics ain't for sissies. > All views, values, are not the same...they conflict as we have seen. So how > do we choose what laws, norms, ethical and legal, to build society on. > > I know P tries to avoid relativim of values, yet he does in other places > seem to say none are right or wrong, they just are. This is my point. Many > world views, and their values, and the laws that stem from them are > mutually > incompatible. Not only this, they are mutually offensive. Not only this, > they are mutually blasphemous. > > How amongst all do we choose a world view and a value system? > > Ok, good question. After a lot of blather, a good question. Ever hear of Kierkegaard? I've only recently become fascinated with him, but according to a hero of mine, Jacques Ellul, K gives an astounding criticism of philosophical history since Socrates as based upon IMAGERY. An amazing critique of Objectivism, imho. But the primary failing of modern philosophy is it's inability to listen. To wait for the word. And who we are, is defined by what we are doing. And what we are doing, is waiting for that next word. Which will convey meaning. "How amongst all do we choose a world view and a value system?". That was a GOOD question. Go with it. > One other point on the Platt-Pirsig quote. Pirsig seems to think that such > values regarding rights are a good thing. OK, but where does he think they > come from and how can they best be sustained. > > By asking the question, first of all. And by answering the BEST you can second. > I would like to have a serious discussion on this and other issues with > those who can do so with the more mature members of this group. Those who > have more heat than light, whose egos are easily bruised when someone dare > to disagree with them, who worship the great void between their ears, are > free to ignore me. > > heh-heh.. have you heard of this thing called "projection"? just wonderin' cuz your ego seemed a little bruised there... John C. The beneficent Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
