aw heck, Frank, don't be like that. you're it.
On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Frank Booth <[email protected]> wrote: > Godamnitalltohell. ( kicks can, sulks away. ) > > > > > ________________________________ > From: John Carl <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, May 9, 2010 12:18:54 PM > Subject: Re: [MD] Reading & Comprehension > > Thanks Mary, for a well-written and well-thought post. > > It's interesting to get your take on a period of MD, examined as a whole > from a slightly removed weekend perspective. Being in the middle of > something grants less perspective than a bit removed from the fray. > > I just have one quibble that jumped out at me, a correction of your > perception of my view: > > > > > [Mary Replies] > > The quotes below are entirely consistent with my view of the Intellectual > > Level as SOM and with my additional view that thinking existed in > > rudimentary form all the way back to the Biological. When discussing > > intelligence, one has to be mindful of "degree". I do differ with John's > > idea that even pre-biological objects exhibit intelligence. > > > > > I postulate intelligence as the defining characteristic of life. The > difference between an amoeba and a crystalline growth is an intelligent > patterning of substance. To me, that's just a simple, pragmatically > defensible definition. > > Whereas intellect is the defining characteristic of humans. Intellect > involves symbolic manipulation and intelligence "purposive response to > environment." > > I don't insist upon inflicting my definitions, but I do see them as > provisionally useful for my own understanding. > > > Mary: > > > > Well, I further contend that art also resides at the Social Level. > > > > > John: > > I disagree. Just as humans alone exhibit intellectual patterns, so too do > humans alone exhibit artistic behavior. Horses live naturally in a social > herd, but they don't do art. > > Mary: > > > > I think this because basic communication is a Biological function, but as > > communication transcends Biological needs and also evolves into greater > > complexity, it becomes Social Level communication, and art is nothing > more > > nor less than communication of ideas that transcend Biological needs. > > > > > John: > > Communication is a social-level pattern, as one horse trumpet danger to the > others. Language however is intellectual and confined to humans. > > The "communication of ideas" is intellectual, at least as I define the > term. > > Mary: > > > > The reason I do not place art in the Intellectual Level is because that > is > > not its purpose. Art is not something we do in an attempt to thwart or > > control Society. > > > > > John: > > Oh my goodness Mary, what a disastrous confusion! Have you never > contemplated the eras of Soviet State sponsored Art? Of the uses Hitler > made of artistic propoganda or even our modern devotion to artistic > expression promoting commercialism? What is all this but exactly that > attempt to control society? > > Even Pirsig's books are an artistic attempt to thwart society's SOM. > > Mary: > > > > Art is simply a way to convey our brief touches with Dynamic Quality to > > others. > > > > It is a form of communication. Nothing more nor less. > > > > Art has no Intellectual or Social axe to grind inherently - though it > > certainly has been used for such. > > > > > John: > > Hmmm... I think this whole line of yours ought to be re-examined. If Art > has been, "used for such", then I'd say it's an inherent feature. And as a > "form of communication", it is definitely inherently then of an > intellectual > basis. > > > Thanks for your thoughts, Mary. > > And happy Mother's Day! > > John > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
