On 5/26/10 10:43 PM, "Ham Priday" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Adrie [Joe Maurer quoted] -- > > >> Ham, superb post. I agree on all of it, Pirsig, Huxley and >> strangely but true also your conclusions and abstractions. >> Problem is this: I can think of it all in my language and in >> this context, but I want to type it and the words just >> don't come. >> >> I agree, especially on Pirsig's Huxley insight. >> And I furthermore strongly agree on your statement not to >> pursue to an endless level the DQ/SQ/truth/value train. >> Because of a reason, of course, not to become niche products >> in our own niche, trying to explain the working principles of >> a color to a mouse, or the layout of a computer to a bacterium, >> but missing the point entirely that, by adding properties, >> the original intrinsic properties are, in fact, downscaled >> to a lesser property. >> >> This is where Pirsig Broke free, not allowing to define boundaries for >> Quality, >> desintegrating Quality by adding properties. >> >> MoQ! without definitions. > > Thank you for the kind words, Adrie. And please excuse me for editing them > slightly. Mice and bacteria being taught principles they are incapable of > understanding is a perfect analogy for man confronting an absolute source. > > You're right that we can't put into words what we don't experience. But it > is possible to express an 'intuited' conception by means of analogy, > metaphor, or even logic. This is what I have tried to do with my > metaphysical ontogeny. It's difficult because people tend to react > negatively toward certain terms and principles for reasons that have more to > do with personal bias than with logic. Here's an example from a response > posted just after yours: > > [Joe]: >> Are you equating DQ with a divine reality? I don't think that is >> a correct understanding of what Pirsig meant by DQ. I use DQ >> as an affirmation that there is a lot I don't know. >> >> Logic is a strange tool. "The Absolute Source" sounds like a >> contradiction, since "Source" indicates "a beginning," and >> "Absolute" is without restriction. >> >> It is difficult for me to see the logic in a negation "not-other" >> becoming absolute Essence? If negation is eliminated, it seems >> that affirmation is also eliminated, and imagination is not >> a trustworthy source. > > "Divine reality" was Huxley's term, not mine; but Joe understands it only in > a religious context which surely could not be "what Pirsig meant by DQ." > But if we're searching for Truth, what difference does it make if the analog > stems from religion, philosophy, or science? > > Joe also thinks Absolute Source is a contradiction because "Source indicates > a beginning." That may be true in SOM terminology, as in the originating > point of a stream. But "source" is derived from the French word 'sourdre' > which connotes "surge" (to spring forth) rather than beginning. Absolute > does mean "without restriction", and this is why the negation principle is > necessary to explain the ontogeny of Essence. Existence (otherness) is not > an "add-on" to the Absolute; it is a negation or reduction of absolute > sensibility. > > His last objection is simply a misunderstanding of my ontology. "Not-other" > does not "become absolute". Instead, what is negated by Essence is affirmed > by the realization of value. This is what we, as value-sensible agents, do > with each successive experience in life. The "process" of existence comes > full circle at the completion of the individual's life cycle, and with it > comes the end of change and contrariety. > > These are only speculations on my part, of course, but they seem to make > sense of the empirical fact that life is an individual experience, despite > the need for a primary source to support it. > > Welcome to the forum, Adrie. I can see that your perceptive comments are > already sparking new ideas which can only increase interest in these > discussions. > > Best regards, > Ham Hi Ham, Thanks for clarifying my misunderstandings of your ontology. Joe > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
