[John] No doubt randomness and probability are very useful intellectual tools. But using these tools to explain the cosmos and being seems to me as silly as using a hammer for a screwdriver. Sure, you might be able to get the screw in the wood, but the wood would be so torn and useless that the accomplishment would mean nothing.
[Krimel] As far as I am concerned metaphysics in fact any form of conceptual scheming is like looking for the Holy Grail of Swiss Army knives. I want the most compact tool I can find to fix the most broken stuff I am likely to run into. For my purposes the Leatherman Juice is probably the best but I carry a Leatherman Squirt with pliers because it is so small. I think a Nikon digital SLR like the D4,or D5000 would be great, a D90 the best possible but I carry a Luminx point and shoot with Leica glass because it does 90% of what the Nikons can with a fraction of the bulk. Once you get used to not seeing through the view finder and the slight response delay, you can do amazing things. It is 10 megapixels and with the 12X zoom you can take a picture and read 12 point type from 50 feet. But I think a lot depends on what kind of work you need to do. [John] And that's the issue I have with randomness. It means nothing. Ya gotta have meaning in your metaphysical stance or what good does it do you? [Krimel] The meaning of "meaning"... Ah there's the rub. I am still clinging to Shannon's "reduction in uncertainty". There may be something better but I haven't found it yet. [John] That's the heart of my argument against the moronist position. It doesn't do any good to focus on randomness as ontology. What does that convey? Just any old random thing. Why don't you just call it for what it is - Nihilism- and be done? [Krimel] I don't have a problem with the term nihilism. I get all warm and fuzzy when Ham calls me that. But that really isn't how I see it. Once you get away from the idea that it is out there in the world or in God or in some Absolute you learn to start looking for it on your own. I don't give a shit about the meaning and purpose of the universe or God or the Absolute. Even if they have it, that doesn't mean it's good for me. It could be Vonnegut's Tralfamadorians jerking us around for millennia just to order parts for their broken space ship. Fuck that. I have a three month old grandson who smiles like an angel whenever I wipe the crap off of his little butt. I don't need a higher purpose than that. John: The similarity proves to me that being a genius can sure drive ya crazy sometimes. Thank randomness we're all spared that one, eh Krimel? [Krimel] That certainly is the impression Pirsig tries to leave. I tend to think it is the other way around. [John] Well I don't see how the moronist view sees the MoQ as integrative, when there is no such thing as "better", there's also no such thing as error. There's no such thing as thing. The whole position completely fails the pragmatic test of "betterness" when there is no betterness to be tested against. [Krimel] Well as I have tried to show you it not only is ubiquitous. It's uses and applications are ubiquitous. Randomness as the term is used in all these different ways is not your old school randomness that bothers you. It is a measure of uncertainty, (see above). Betterness is always just a matter of how you view the odds. [John] It's a shame, really. You're such a bright guy Krimel, and you write so well. [Krimel] Backatcha [John] But the idea of there not being a good is exactly the same as the SOM contention that we live in a values-free universe and thus ojiaewni. r9q2- ]03grf iegal ksdkv epojvj Is exactly equivalent to profundity. [Krimel] But "I" is in the universe. Good as you've got, is good as it gets. Sounds like all you need is more time and monkeys. [John] PS: about my navel, it depends on your unit of measurement [Krimel] Well if you are one of the AWGIs just keep looking, it is supposed to just come to you in a flash of enlightenment. Try holding your breath. OOOOMMMMYGOD I fell asleep again... Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
