Hi Joe
On 2010-07-07 02:09, Joseph Maurer wrote:
On 7/6/10 1:02 PM, "Magnus Berg"<[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
"In this plain of understanding static, patterns of value are divided
into four systems: inorganic patterns, biological patterns, social
patterns and intellectual patÂterns. They are exhaustive. That's all
there are. If you construct an encyclopedia of four topics - Inorganic,
Biological, Social and Intellectual - nothing is left out. No 'thing,'
that is. Only Dynamic Quality, which cannot be described in any
encyclopedia, is absent."
<snip>
Hi Magnus and all,
I am curious! Is it your interpretation of the paragraph cited that the
levels which Persig proposed for evolutionary reality are the only levels
possible?
No, I have a theory of my own about that. Last I counted, I got 7. :)
See "the levels undressed" in the moq.org forum for more info.
Given the DQ/SQ metaphysics, does DQ evolve in consciousness only
beyond SQ?
Consciousness? Nah, not by itself. DQ by itself can't sustain some kind
of steady state as consciousness does. I tend to see consciousness as it
is described in "The quantum self", a quantum state known as a
Bose-Einstein-Condensate. It behaves like a quantum particle with
superstate positions and all that, but it can encompass larger volumes
than a single particle. So the brain seems to be build in such a way
that it supports such a condensate, but we still don't know how that's
done with biological material. We can only make artificial B-E-C in
extremely cold environments, near absolute 0 K.
Is it illogical given DQ that evolution be only defined reality? Does Pirsig
leave open the possibility that DQ evolves beyond SQ in heroes? Is it
illogical that DQ evolve to DQ only levels in the consciousness of heroes
like Persig which would allow one to list further levels in DQ evolution
only? This proposal of further levels in consciousness only is found in the
esoteric writings of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Nicoll, Collins, Bennett etc. In
your opinion is this beyond the MOQ?
I don't see DQ as something like a level above the SQ levels. DQ is more
like the catalyst driving forth new levels. When an old level has filled
up its environment, like animals did in the primordial sea here on
earth, DQ comes along and shows how to step up on dry land, and then how
to fly. I'm of course not saying that land-living animals are of another
level, but that's a pretty good analogy to how levels evolve.
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the writings you mention, but any
higher level need of course be based on intellectual patterns, so the
human brain is probably a good place to start looking for it.
After reading some on Wikipedia about the authors you mentioned, I think
I realize what you're after. Some kind of supernatural senses, right?
But still, DQ is probably not the answer to such endeavours. You need SQ
to get some kind of stability, to get the same (or similar) result every
time. I also doubt you really need a new level for it. You have to ask
yourself if it's really *new*, or if it's just *more*.
Magnus
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