Krimel said to dmb:
"...The world of experience and of consciousness is continuous; not discrete."
You disagree with this?
dmb replies:
It would be an understatement to say I disagree. My overall impression is that
you taken the central distinction and run it through a food processor. Somehow,
it's inside out and backwards at the same time. It's a convoluted version of
the sentence you were trying to find in SOME PROBLEMS OF PHILOSOPHY.
"There must always be a discrepancy between concepts and reality, because the
former are static and discontinuous while the latter is dynamic and flowing."
This is radical empiricism condensed into a single sentence. At the same time
it is also the most concise statement of the difference between static and
Dynamic. If you get this part right, understanding will rain down in buckets.
The distinction between concepts and reality is the distinction between static
patterns and dynamic quality. The difference is that one is discontinuous and
the other is continuous. The line drawn between them is conceptual, for
example. That concept, that line between them is what makes them discontinuous.
This conceptual distinction separates them from each other. This is the nature
of all concepts and that's how they deserve the name "discontinuous" or
"static" of "defined".
Reality, on the other hand, is not discontinuous. It is continuous and flowing
and dynamic. This is not to say that concepts are unreal. The idea here is
essentially to contrast conceptual experience and pre-conceptual experience,
conceptual understandings and direct experience. There are a number of terms
for this and they all get this idea across: the cutting edge of experience, the
immediate flux of life, the primary empirical reality, the undifferentiated
aesthetic continuum, undivided experience, pure experience, the dynamic edge of
experience, etc.. The idea is simply that in the ongoing process of experience
there is always a moment of awareness before experience cut up into pieces by
our habits of thought. That's why we describe that moment in terms like "the
pre-intellectual cutting edge of awareness". Intellect chops things into
discontinuous pieces while direct experience itself is prior to that. Thus the
pre-intellectual reality is continuous and flowing while con
cepts are discontinuous and static.
In order to agree with your sentence, I'd have to make some changes.
"...The world of experience and of consciousness is continuous; not discrete."
becomes...
"...The world of pure experience is contrasted with conceptual awareness. The
former is continuous and the latter is discrete." You disagree with this?
Krimel said:
...I am past caring what you say about what James says. I have been asking you
to demonstrate the "cash value" of your convictions. ...You continue to miss
the whole question. I am not asking you to clarify James' or anyone else's
position on some bit of metaphysical arcania. I don't care who said what and I
care ever less who you think said what. ...The issue I am asking about is the
notion of concepts arising from and being secondary to percepts. Are you saying
this is or is not what James claims?
dmb says:
That's what I just explained above. I explained James's claim on that issue
exactly, although he doesn't use the term "percepts" there. It is about the
secodary nature of concepts and why they stand in contrast to pre-conceputal
awareness. If there is something you find objectionable or confusing, I'd
really like to know what it is. It seems very clear and simple to me and I
baffled at the way you keep mixing it up, asking questions about it, AND
insisting that you already understand it. Your confusion really confuses me. It
sounds like a put-down rather than a real question, but I ask you in all
seriousness. What is it you don't get about the difference between "conceptual"
and "pre-conceptual". That's all we're talking about here.
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