Ham,
Existence (experience) is all there is: Reality = Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience.) --- I was so happy to see this post. I thought you left us. Marsha On Sep 5, 2010, at 3:52 AM, Ham Priday wrote: > > On Sept. 2 at 1:01 PM, DMB quoted Robert Richardson on William James: > > >> "In 'Does Consciousness Exist?', which Bertrand Russell claimed 'startled >> the world', James says the answer is no. 'Consciousness is the name of a >> non-entity'. As we generally conceive of it, consciousness is the 'faint >> rumor left behind by the disappearing 'soul' upon the air of philosophy'. If >> we were to speak precisely, James says, consciousness is 'only a name for >> the fact that the 'content' of experiences IS KNOWN'. ... > > The next day Andre praised this quote, comparing it to a statement by another > writer on Buddhism. He also added an observation of his own regarding > contradictory propositions: > > Andre: >> A 'knower' without anything 'known' is a contradiction in terms. >> The 'objective' looking over the 'subjective' is a contradiction in terms. >> It is a fallacy, and for some here on this list to suggest that the >> intellectual level is just that: the objective over the subjective, is plain >> silly. > > I don't believe that William James or Andre Broerson have clarified the issue > of duality by these simplistic statements. > > James' assertion that consciousness does not exist because it is "the name of > a non-entity" certainly can't mean that there is no consciousness. If that > were true, why would we, as conscious organisms, be trying to define what > consciousness is? Likewise, I fail to see the reasoning in Andre's assertion > that "a 'knower' without anything 'known' is a contradiction in terms." I > submit that "the existence of things without a knower" is just as > contradictory a proposition. The Knower has the "potential to be aware". If > that potentiality is not primary to consciousness, there is no > knowledge...and I should add, no value either. > > Andre later concedes that duality (dualism) exists: >> Yes there are dualisms. We cannot do without them. Our language is >> an attempt to assist us in making explicit these quality events, these >> relationships. The West has taken these to the extreme, indeed that dualims >> are opposed to each other and as dmb has pointed out in various of his >> references, different schools have sought different ways of uniting the two. >> Thing is; they were never 'opposed'. > > It is clear to me that subjectivity/objectivity characterizes the duality of > existence. The reason philosophers like Pirsig want to dismiss duality is > not that the concept makes metaphysics fuzzy, or that Descartes and the > dualists were "intellectually challenged". Rather, it's because they believe > existence is all there is; that existence therefore must equate to Reality. > From this belief system (existentialism) comes the notion that mind and > matter, consciousness and patterns, are unified by Value which is then > posited as the "true" Reality. But, as I have pointed out previously, even > "value" requires a conscious subject. > > Incidentally, I've been reading John Searle's 'Mind" recently, mainly to > satisfy my curiosity about the man's philosophy. It is a very thorough > introduction to consciousness as a process, but it's not nearly as > interesting as D'Souza's 'Life After Death' which actually explores the > mind/matter issue in metaphysical terms. (I expect to have more to say about > these writers at a later time.) Meanwhile, I'm still reviewing the MD posts > on a daily basis, although sadly I've seen no evidence that you folks are any > closer to agreement on the MoQ than when I joined this forum eight years ago. > > Happy Labor Day to all, > Ham > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
