Greetings Ham, On Sep 12, 2010, at 3:23 AM, Ham Priday wrote:
> Dear Marsha -- > > >> I am getting quite tired of being called names because I think outside >> someone else's box. I don't expect to be told that I am not permitted >> to use the word reification in my definition of the Intellectual Level, >> and I don't expect be told I am an idiot when I determine that truth >> within the MoQ is relative. And I am sick of being told I am >> anti-intellectual because I think that RMP's "Kill all intellectual patterns. >> Kill them completely" Is the key to actual awakening to the MoQ's >> highest point-of-view. Not this, not that. Yes it is my favorite. >> It is my bottom line, and it is past speculation. It is habit. > > Reification is an archaic word for treating an abstraction as a concrete > thing. The term is generally used with contemptful or deprecatory intent. > For example, Karl Marx is said to have stated that representing human beings > as "commoditiies", such as "the labor force", reifies man by depriving him of > his individuality or character. I like the word. I think it works perfectly to explain the functioning of mind. This is the MoQ, I would think a fresh understand is possible. > > The philosophical equivalent is "hypostasis", which means construing a > conceptual idea as a real existent. Since I am a phenomenalist, I prefer the > simpler verb "objectivize" when referring to experienced phenomena (i.e., > "patterns" in Pirsig's vernacular). Yes, I did see a reference to hypostasis, but most Buddhist text use 'reification'. I do think the MoQ is a bridge between the science of the West and the insight/wisdom of the East, so I will continue to use it. > The problem I have with your concept of intellect is the same one I have with > that unfortunate Pirsig quote. If we were to take it seriously--that is, > "kill" or eliminate all intellectual thought--what do you suppose would > happen to reasoning from our knowledge of how the world works? Virtually > every field related to human advancement would cease, including medical > research, technology, mathematics, economics, sociology, and the analysis of > human history. Learning would literally be impossible, for most of our > understanding comes from the deductions and inferences that intellection > affords us. Moreover, the intellectual function in no way impedes or hampers > philosophical thought; in fact, intellection is critical for the development > of philosophy. I have explained before that I understand this statement to "Kill all intellectual patterns." as mediation/mindfulness which is a technique to awakening and eventually enlightenment. That I am accused of anti-intellectualism for citing it is ridiculous. RMP recommends Steven Hagen's book 'Buddhism Plain and Simple', which has much to say on this topic. > Whether or not the "material" world is substantively real is itself an > intellectual question. So if it weren't for your intellect, you would not be > raising the issue. But even if objective patterns are "neither this nor > that", are you going to withdraw from existence and live out your life in a > fantasy world that only you imagine? That doesn't seem a very practical > alternative, no matter what your Buddhist gurus tell you. No I am not going to withdraw into a world without patterns, unless I am meditating. The idea is to keep close the understanding of the nature of all patterns, but when necessary to choose the best pattern/process for the task at hand. > Our differentiated experience on this planet can teach us much about > spirituality, relationships, and morality, despite our intellectual > limitations. Above all, living in a relational world affords us intimate > awareness of Value. I don't know about you, but it is inconceivable to me > that the splendors of this universe do not point to an order of Reality > beyond human comprehension. If I am right, this means that your life, as > well as mine, has a purpose or destiny that transcends finite existence. If > I'm wrong, we have nothing to lose by participating fully in this life with > high expectations of where it may lead. I will not speculate on a 'purpose', but agree there is beauty and love to be found in each moment. > > Essentially yours, > Ham Marsha ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
