Greetings, For me, the MoQ as Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience.) Intellectual Static Patterns of Value are reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis and manipulation. Intellectual patterns process from a subject/object conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of independence as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.” The fourth level is a formalized subject/object level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational, objective knowledge, which is free from the taint of any subjectivity.
I do not need to defend my position against anybody's absolute definition. As far I've experienced it, my explanation leaves plenty of room for expansion into a new level of quality awareness. Other posters are free to think differently. Marsha On Sep 12, 2010, at 2:50 PM, MarshaV wrote: > > True for me... > > > ``Any philosophic explanation of Quality is going to be both false and true > precisely because it is a philosophic explanation. The process of philosophic > explanation is an analytic process, a process of breaking something down > into subjects and predicates. What I mean (and everybody else means) by > the word quality cannot be broken down into subjects and predicates. This > is not because Quality is so mysterious but because Quality is so simple, > immediate and direct. > > (ZMM, Chapter 20) > > > > > > > > On Sep 12, 2010, at 2:48 PM, MarshaV wrote: > >> >> A difference in the evaluation of quality. >> >> >> "The reason there is a difference between individual evaluations of quality >> is that although Dynamic Quality is a constant, these static patterns are >> different for everyone because each person has a different static pattern of >> life history. Both the Dynamic Quality and the static patterns influence his >> final judgment. That is why there is some uniformity among individual value >> judgments but not complete uniformity." >> >> (RMP, SODV) >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 12, 2010, at 2:45 PM, MarshaV wrote: >> >>> >>> Within the MoQ, truth is relative: >>> >>> Anthony writes: >>> “Intellectual values include truth, justice, freedom, democracy and, >>> trial by jury. It’s worth noting that the MOQ follows a pragmatic >>> notion of truth so truth is seen as relative in his system while >>> Quality is seen as absolute. In consequence, the truth is defined >>> as the highest quality intellectual explanation at a given time. >>> >>> RMP: >>> If the past is any guide to the future this explanation must be taken >>> provisionally; as useful until something better comes along. One can >>> then examine intellectual realities the same way he examines paintings >>> in an art gallery, not with an effort to find out which one is the ‘real’ >>> painting, but simply to enjoy and keep those that are of value. There are >>> many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive some >>> to have more quality than others, but that we do so is, in part, the result >>> of our history and current patterns of values. (Pirsig, 1991, p.103)” >>> >>> (McWatt,Anthony,MOQ Textbook) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 12, 2010, at 2:37 PM, MarshaV wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> There is not one man who does all the measuring. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Who is right? Is there more than one meaning of the word 'around'? That's >>>> a surprise! That's like discovering more than one true system of geometry. >>>> How many meanings are there and which one is right? >>>> >>>> It seems as though the squirrel is using the term 'around' in a way that >>>> is relative to itself but the man is using it in a way that is relative to >>>> an absolute point in space outside of the squirrel and himself. But if we >>>> dop the squirrel's relative point of view and we take the absolute fixed >>>> point of view, what are we letting ourselves in for? From a fixed point in >>>> space every human being on this planet goes around every other human being >>>> to the east or west of him once a day. The whole East River does a >>>> half-cartwheel over the Hudson each morning and another one under it each >>>> evening. Is this what we want to mean by 'around'? If so, how useful is >>>> it? And if the squirrel's relative point of view is false, how useless is >>>> it? >>>> >>>> What emerges is that the word 'around,' which seems like one of the most >>>> clear and absolute and fixed terms in the universe suddenly turns out to >>>> be relative and subjective. What is 'around' depends on who you are and >>>> what you're thinking about at the time you use it. The more you tug at it >>>> the more things start to unravel. One such philosophic tugger was Albert >>>> Einstein, who concluded that all time and space are relative to the >>>> observer. >>>> >>>> We are always in the position of that squirrel. Man is always the measure >>>> of all things, even in matters of space and dimension. Persons like James >>>> and Einstein, immersed in the spirit of philosophy, do not see things like >>>> squirrels circling trees as necessarily trivial, because solving puzzles >>>> like that are what they're in philosophy and science for. Real science and >>>> real philosophy are not guided by preconceptions of what subjects are >>>> important to consider." >>>> >>>> (LILA,Chapter 26) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
