If you do gather that Platt, then you failed to read my lips - "mixed" I said - same everywhere in the sane (and resource wealthy) world - US, UK, even Norway, the last Soviet state, not sure about bonobo troupes.
Safety net for those aspects society considers "rights" worth preserving - private insurance top-up where people have surplus income (and yes people includes individual, family, relatives, racial, ethnic and religious clans and tribes, enemies, popes, whatever) .... who's gonna stop anyone with the resources to actually save a human. Now we could debate how much "rights" an MoQ argument would support ... values are spread across all four levels and endless dynamic possibilities besides .... if you were serious about leaving the pernicious propaganda and misrepresentation behind. Ian On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 4:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Ian: > The question is: What does the MOQ offer as a guide to making the decision as > to who lives and who dies? What do you say? > > I gather you prefer a government panel rather than a private insurer who is > bound by contract. Does the patient's family have any say? > > Platt > > On 13 Sep 2010 at 17:13, Ian wrote: > >> Nice try Platt, to sneak death panel propaganda under the guise of a >> serious moral question. >> >> Every organisation engaging in health and safety risks makes this >> decision every minute of every day. Think drilling for oil in the gulf. >> >> As far as health care goes US & UK are identical in nature - ie mixed. >> Basic minimum socialized care limited by tax budgets plus private care >> limited by insurance budgets limited by personal choice and ability to >> pay. The balance is different, the socialized downside is lower in the >> US, but the private upside is identical. Read my lips - identical. >> >> Neither is imune from the difficult decision. Both have to conserve >> budgets as opportunity to spend on alternatives. Only one has to hold >> back funds for shareholder profit dividends. >> >> Now, what was the question ? >> Ian >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 13 Sep 2010, at 16:35, [email protected] wrote: >> >> > All: >> > >> > In a conversation reported in the Guardian.uk scientists David >> > Attenborough and >> > Richard Dawkins were asked, "What is the most difficult ethical >> > dilemma facing >> > science today:? >> > >> > "DA: How far do you go to preserve individual human life? >> > >> > RD: That's a good one, yes. >> > >> > DA: I mean, what are we to do with the NHS? How can you put a value >> > in pounds, >> > shillings and pence on an individual life? There was a case with a >> > bowel cancer >> > drug -- if you gave that drug, which costs several thousand pounds, it >> > continued life for six weeks on. How can you make that decision?" >> > >> > How would the MOQ make that decision? There's no direct answer that >> > I can find >> > in Pirsig's writings. I presume that if the patient was of sound >> > mind and, from >> > his past history, could potentially offer something of intellectual >> > value >> > during the remaining six or so weeks of his life, he should receive >> > the drug. >> > Otherwise, the social value of his life would rule which, as the >> > Giant would >> > judge, isn't worth a pence. Biologically the poor soul would be best >> > recycled. >> > >> > What's really horrendous about the question is that in the NHS and now >> > potentially in the U.S. such questions are all too real with life >> > and death >> > decisions in the hands of a government committee, i.e., a death >> > panel. I don't >> > know about you, but the thought of my government determining whether >> > I live or >> > die makes me sick. It's as if Joe Stalin was resurrected. >> > >> > When you surrender such personal decisions to the government, not >> > only is your >> > life threatened, but DQ, the creative force of evolution, dies, too. >> > Perhaps, >> > the MOQ answer is just that -- take responsibility for your own life >> > so DQ can >> > flourish. >> > >> > The interview is at: >> > >> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/11/science-david-attenborough- >> > richard-dawkins >> > >> > Regards, >> > Platt >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
