On Sep 21, 2010, at 5:44 AM, Andre Broersen wrote: > > > Marsha to Adrie: > > Andre: > I think you meant 'Andre' given your response to my post...ah, what's in a > name anyway!! > > Marsha: > But the issue was the Intellectual Level and I was considering a definition > of intellectual > static patterns of value based on how they function. > > Andre: > Ah, all you SOMers want nice, clean, clear-cut definitions so you can chew on > them and then > spit them out again!
Marsha: In the end, it is always not this, not that. - Now whine, why don't you, that I will not accept a clear-cut definition and I'm an anti-intellectual. > Chew on this for a bit Marsha and then swallow it and digest it...you may > learn some MOQ stuff: > > 'Poincare then hyposthesized that this selection is made by what he called > the 'subliminal self', > an entity that corresponds exactly with what Phaedrus called pre-intellectual > awareness. > The subliminal self, Poincarre said,looks at a large number of solutions to > a problem, but only the > INTERESTING ones break into the domain of consciousness. Mathematical > solutions are selected by the > subliminal self on the basis of 'mathematical beauty', of the harmony of > numbers and forms, of > geometric elegance. 'This is a true esthetic feeling which all mathematicians > know',Poincare said... > It is this harmony, this beauty that is at the center of it all'. > > Poincare made it clear that he was not speaking of romantic beauty, the > beauty of appearances which > strike the senses. He meant classic beauty, which comes from the harmonious > order of the parts, AND > WHICH A PURE INTELLIGENCE CAN GRASP, which gives structure to romantic beauty > and without which life > would be only vague and fleeting...'. My emphasis.(ZMM, p261) Marsha: Oh right, Poincare says and the world freezes with his statements. That's as bad as "James and Pirsig say", "James and Pirsig say", "James and Pirsig say"... Boring... I have the concept of 'intelligence' as separate from intellect/intellectual. Intelligence: The skillful use of whatever patterns (organic, biological, social & intellectual) a given situation requires, or possibly to use no patterns if nothing is required. > > This functioning Marsha...this harmoniously ordering of the parts. > > '...the MOQ states that consciousness (i.e. intellectual patterns) is the > collection and manipulation > of symbols, created in the brain,that stand for patterns of experience...A > question arises if the term > 'consciousness' is expanded to mean 'intuition' or 'mystic awareness'. (LC, > Annot:32) 32. Since the MOQ states that consciousness (i.e. intellectual patterns) is the collection and manipulation of symbols,created in the brain, that stand for patterns of experience, then artificial intelligence would be the collection and manipulation of symbols, created in a machine, that stand for patterns of experience. If one agrees that experience exists at the inorganic level, then it is clear that computers already have artificial intelligence. A question arises if the term “consciousness” is expanded to mean “intuition” or“mystic awareness.” Then computers are shut out by the fact that static patterns do not create Dynamic Quality. Marsha: I find no decisive definition of intellectual static patters of value in this annotation. If you want to jump to a conclusion by all means do so, but don't expect that I am going to make the same jump. And do you expect that by throwing an incomplete ambiguous quote at me I'm going swoon having been overwhelmed by you insight??? Dream on... > > I think it is beyond doubt (in my mind at least) that the MOQ has expanded > consciousness (i.e.intellectual > patterns)to also mean 'intuition' or 'mystical awareness' because it can > grasp 'the center of it all'. Marsha: I'd say 'intelligence' includes insights, intuitions and expanded consciousness, but again, I have intelligence defined separately from intellect/intellectual. Have a nice day. ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
