OK Ron, I misunderstood. I thought you were stating that Truth defines Quality. Even the presumption that Quality creates Truth is a bit on the raw side. I am still trying to get through the Cabalah, but I'll get back to the seeds which were possibly planted by those Greeks, and study up. In truth I would imagine it is hard to draw any demarkation at all. From my readings, the Egyptians had similar concepts, (quotes to come when I can find them again).
Mark On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:00 PM, X Acto <[email protected]> wrote: > Well geez Mark that was the whole point, by stating that truth is a drive > toward betterness James is saying that truth is a drive toward Quality. > Same with Aristotle. > > It seems to me it's the Pathagoreans, which Plato ultimately sides with, > that caused all the trouble. > > First by assuming physical reality is explainable by number and second, > that number exists eternal imovable and seperate from physical reality. > > Aristotle is not the culprit, in fact he falls more in line with Pirsig, > James > and Socrates. > > I've read all of "metaphysics" and I have not found any support for the > idea > that he > gives creedance to any sort of physical explanation, nor is the word > "substance" > used > in my translation. > > I think we could all learn alot from reading about the philosphical > problems the > ancients addressed and in many ways it's the same problems MoQ addresses. > Only the ancients explored them more thoroughly than we have. > > > > Ron > > No harm taken > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: 118 <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 1:01:11 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] the problem of the one and the many > > Hmm Ron, > > Philosophical discussion you ask? Perhaps I do not know the rules. Now, > if > quoting W. James makes it philosophical, then I should perhaps go on Wiki > and cut some quotes and attribute their understanding to me, get on their > shoulders so to speak. > > No, my statement was sincere. When Truth becomes subordinate to Quality, > which is one interpretation of MoQ, then W. James' definitions which you > posted kind of fall apart. Don't you think? Perhaps I am mistaken. > > No harm intended. > > Mark > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 6:40 PM, X Acto <[email protected]> wrote: > > > So, 118, > > > > Does this mean you are actually going to engage in some > > philosophical discussion for a change? > > > > At least Marsha forwarded an interesting story, but you always seem > > to fail at even the smallest attempt at wit. > > > > If you actually made a statement worth responding to in any kind of > > philosophical fashion, I'd at least make an effort, but you, you're a > > genius > > trapped in a stupid persons body. > > > > Ron > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: 118 <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 12:44:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [MD] the problem of the one and the many > > > > So, Xacto, > > > > Does this mean we can only assimilate true ideas? > > > > If so, why do we have political parties at war with each other? This > makes > > truth seems awfully subjective. If that was your point, then I cannot > > disagree. Quality is above Truth, I think that's what Bob said. > > > > Also remember, that W. James was a father of modern psychology, heavily > > influenced by Darwin. He is simply talking about behavior, nothing more. > > > > And Aristotle, well he has mislead Western thinking for way too long now, > > don't you think? He did have a bewitching way with words though. All > > seems > > to make sense until you question it. He kind of got stuck in his own > > definitions (in my humble opinion, of course, but then again, I am the > > smartest man in the world). > > > > Mark > > > > On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:23 AM, X Acto <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True ideas are those that we can assimilate > > > > > > > > > validate > > > > > > > > > corroborate > > > and verify. > > > > > > False ideas are those we can not. > > > > > > truth happens to an idea. > > > > > > "Primarily, and on a common sense level, the truth of a state of mind > > > means this function of a leading that is worth while." > > > > > > Ron: > > > The above is by William James, and I think this is a well stated > > appraisel > > > in fact, Aristotle makes a similar appraisel adding that the act of > this > > > pursuit > > > the act of intelligibility is predicated on a betterness. > > > This betterness is pleasurable and satisfying it is wonder-ful. > > > > > > In the spirit of the state of wonder > > > > > > is a lover of wisdom > > > > > > the pantheon housing the very best ideas > > > > > > the ones with the highest human values. > > > > > > Arisitotle went so far as to name this driving feeling of wonder > > > > > > as divine. > > > > > > I believe these ideas really help inform one trying to understand what > > > B.Pirsig is talking about with the idea of Quality. > > > > > > It also greatly helps to super-impose the problem of the many and the > one > > > on top of static and dynamic Quality. Static being the many and dynamic > > the > > > one. > > > > > > If Bob has'nt read "Metaphysics" in a while, I suggest book Lambda. > > > Also I suggest reading the conclusions Aristotle came to regarding > > > the one and the many. > > > In his day, it seemed, Aristotle took the problem of the "one and the > > many" > > > much the same way Bob Pirsig took the problem of "subject and object." > > > One might even say they are the same problem. > > > The many ways to interpet and understand one experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
