Hi Mark, >> Steve: >> This is a typical Platteral shift. The question was not about whether >> religions have any true moral beliefs. Of course they do, and since >> religions contradict one another's moral teachings they also obviously >> have a lot of false moral beliefs. If there are any people of faith >> who are not deceived (if one religion actually is true), then there >> are certainly millions who are deceived. >> > > Mark: > Steve, I think you are confusing truth with belief. I believe I like > pistachios, that does not make it true. It is only true that I believe > that. All religions are true in that sense. The deception is realized when > one changes his/her mind, it does not exist before that.
Steve: I understand completely that believing something is not the same as it being true. But in your odd example, I can't see how you could believe that you like pistachios when you don't really like them. Steve: >> The question is what is the basis for moral truth? Is it (1) the >> authority of prophets and clerics? Or is it (2) the fact that some >> things are better than others and therefore the distinction between >> good and bad is open to rational inquiry? > Mark: > Yes Steve, that is the question, but you are missing a few choices in the > multiple choice question. If I had to choose from the above I would say > number 1. The so called authority of prophets and the resulting clerics is > arrived at through rational inquiry, it is not just made up out of nothing. > They are directly addressing the question of moral truth, so the underlying > premise to their answers provides more basis. Steve: Such authorities generally conflate morality with "the will of God" and claim special divine revellation rather than a reasoned argument in support of their "moral" pronouncements. They speak on God's behalf about how to please God rather than speaking on the topic of how to maximize human well-being. It is clear that we simply aren't talking about the same thing when we use the word "morality." I doesn't look to me as though you could possibly contribute anything to a discussion of morality (any one that I am interested in) if you don't see morality as being concerned with conscious experience but rather as whatever a given ecclesiastical authority decides God wills. Best, Steve Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
