Greetings, Steve [Mark, Platt quoted] --
On 19 Oct 2010 at 6:54 PM. Mark wrote:
Science is based on a system of equality through measurement.
The accurate measurement of truth lies outside in the regions of
religion or philosophy or just plain common sense. Such truth is
not derived through scientific methods, but through more intuitive
approaches. Our communication with Quality at a fundamental
level is not measurable, it creates the concept of measurement
itself. It is impossible for a calculator to calculate itself.
Platt responded:
I couldn't agree with you more. You have deftly revealed what's
behind the curtain of science's claim to "truth." What's true is what
Pirsig observed: "Science has no values. Not officially." Just as it is
impossible for a calculator to calculate itself, it's impossible for a
discipline that has no values to comprehend values.
To which you said:
You missed the point as usual. In the bit you refer to here Pirsig
tried to get science to recognize that it actually does have values
not to argue that we ought to get rid of science or remind science
to stay in its value-neutral place. Instead he wanted to expand
the concept of rationality--a root expansion of reason--so it can
deal with values and so values can be opened to rational inquiry.
What you are arguing against is pretty much Pirsig's main
philosophical project in his two books.
When are we ever going to cease complaining about Science, Steve? The
knowledge and achievements gleaned from objective science have raised the
standard of human life substantially over the last 200 years.
Pronouncements about morality were never the province of Science which has
gotten along quite well, thank you, without an invasion of moralists
determined to reform its methodology.
For a philosopher with a bachaleaurate degree in English Composition to
demand that we "kill the intellectuals...kill them all!" it's the height of
hypocrisy to suggest that we "expand the concept of rationality...so that it
can deal with values." The "values" Science deals with are necessarily
quantitative and expressed in numbers and equations. That's what makes
scientific conclusions efficacious and reliable. To impose subjective
precepts about morality on this discipline would only destroy its usefulness
and set human thinking back to the 16th century.
Morality is a societal code derived from subjective value-judgments that
have nothing to do with validating objective truths or defining universal
laws. Indeed, moral behavior is indigenous to the local culture, and any
attempt to establish a moral system that works for all mankind is bound to
fail. This is why the U.S. has been unsuccessful in nation-building aimed
at turning backward nations like Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan into democratic
republics.
Essentially speaking,
Ham
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