Good stuff, Ron. I need to re-read it , as it is evolving. Adrie 2010/11/4 X Acto <[email protected]>
> dmb says: > > I think you both have a good point and they aren't really mutually > exclusive > >points. I mean, each level of static quality is superior to the one below > it > >precisely because it's more open to improvement. The intellectual level is > >considered to be superior to the social level because it is less static > and more > >flexible. This upward movement toward greater freedom has its limits too > of > >course. Without static patterns nothing could last and too much freedom > leads to > >degeneracy and devolution. I mean, betterness has its static side too. I'd > even > >say betterness can be applied within the fourth level so that we can weigh > the > >relative merits of opposed intellectual patterns, such as we see in the > >rejection of SOM in favor of the MOQ. The basic idea that some things are > better > >than others can be applied a million different ways. It guides the > painter, the > >poet, the politician, the philosopher and the scientists. Hell, it guides > us in > >the produce section of the grocery store too. Some > > philosophies are better than others, some cultures are better than > others and > >some tomatoes are better than others. > > Ron: > Hello Dave, > I think thats just about right, I think in a simple pragmatic sense of the > meaning > it just about covers all the bases as a complex pattern of prefferences, > what > else > could a static pattern be? > I'm not quite sure I understand the resistance to the idea of linking the > terms > "betterness" with "value" and "Quality" some have. > I mean, I have some idea of the possible reasons one may have in getting > upset of the endeavor of seeking to define, explain and understand that, > which we are told, may not be defineable, explainable or understandable. > It becomes sacred, and as much one defends the purity of the idea. > But is'nt that what all understanding of betterness IS? the endeavor > of defining, explaining and understanding the dynamic? > > > Horse said: > > > > Hi Dan, Ron, David, Andre et alia > > I'll take a wild stab in the dark here and guess that what Ron referred > to was something that was about on MD several years ago. > > Inorganic - Order is better than Chaos > Organic - Alive is better than Dead > Social - Together is better than Alone > Intellectual - Reason is better than Dogma > > Each of these expresses an implied reference to the level below as Dave > points out. > > There's probably a 5th idea of betterness as well according to the MoQ - > Dynamic is better than Static > > I've also slapped this into a new thread for convenience. > > Ron: > Thanks Horse, > Thats a pretty fair assessment of my aim. I think you are right in that > last > statement, which is why I apealed to all to reflect on what exactly that > means > to our group. What does it mean to state that Dynamic experience is > "better"? > the discussion steming from this inquirey has often gotten heated in the > context > of pragmatic truth. It hinted at correspondance theory to some. > The idea that what we mean when we say that something is "true" is what > we mean when we say that it is better, anchors the entire idea that value > is more empirical than scientific materialism. > > This brings everything back to Phaedrus, Plato's Phaedrus, the youth > Socrates was trying to persuade that better rhetorical arguements were > those > based in philosophy, the love of wisdom. Socrates reasons were that those > who loved wisdom, seek the betterness in experience. The practice of > reflection of the good in life lends greater rhetorical power, because lets > face > it > greater explanitory power, is, greater rhetorical power. > > Thank you both for your replies > > -Ron > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
