On Dec 5, 2010, at 2:17 PM, david buchanan wrote: > dmb: > Bohm is talking about what WE believe.
Marsha: WE as humans. > dmb: > Lila is saying reality is whatever YOU think it is. Marsha: YOU as a human. > dmb: > Bohm is saying that human beings construct reality. Marsha: Yes, this seems like what he is saying. > dmb: > To equate those two statements is to confuse constructivism with solipsism. Marsha: I interpret them saying the that humans construct their reality. Bohm statement is a little more general, but Lila is saying the same thing. > dmb: > Pirsig says that Lila is intellectually nowhere. And so taking her words as > "the best understanding of REALITY" is intellectually nowhere. Marsha: Being intellectually nowhere would not prevent her from having some wisdom and insightful understanding. > dmb: > That character is a sleazy, psychotic ignoramus. She has quality, but it is > decidedly NOT intellectual quality. In that scene she's being paranoid, > flakey and evasive. Why in the world would anyone equate her assertions with > the assertions of a great physicist-philosophers?! Marsha: You seem to be scraping the bottom the barrel for insults. > dmb > In my opinion, you misread everything you get your hands on. You make a mess > of everything. You misunderstand the meaning of your own evidence and use > text A to defeat text B, even though both texts actually say exactly the same > thing. You are a butcher and a hack. Your position can be defeated by simply > quoting the dictionary or Wikipedia. Positions don't get much weaker than > that. Marsha: And I think I've made it clear that I don't much care about your opinion. >> From: [email protected] >> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 13:47:41 -0500 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [MD] Thus spoke Lila >> >> >> Marsha: >> Aren't those RMP's perceptions of Lila??? Are disagreeing with Lila and >> David Bohm? Or what? >> >> >> >> On Dec 5, 2010, at 1:34 PM, david buchanan wrote: >> >>> dmb: >>> "Biologically she's fine, socially she's pretty far down the scale, >>> intellectually she's nowhere. But Dynamically . . . Ah! That's the one >>> towatch." >> >> >> On Dec 5, 2010, at 1:02 PM, MarshaV wrote: >> >>>> Marsha: >>>> I still think the best understanding of REALITY is found in Lila's >>>> words(LILA, Chapter 14): "...I'm whatever your questions turn me into. You >>>> don't see that. It's your questions that make me who I am. If you think I'm >>>> an angel then that's what I am. If you think I'm a whore then that's what I >>>> am. I'm whatever you think. And if you change your mind about me then I >>>> change too. So whatever Richard tells you, it's true. There's no way he can >>>> lie about me." - Reality is whatever you think it is (your patterns), >>>> there's no way you can lie about it, and if you change your understanding >>>> of >>>> reality, then reality changes too. >>>> >>>> >>>> Here are something by David Bohm that says the same thing: >>>> >>>> "Reality is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we >>>> believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive >>>> depends upon what we look for. What we look for depends on what we think. >>>> What we think depends on what we perceive. What we perceive determines >>>> what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What >>>> we take to be true is our reality." >>>> >>>> (Mathieu Ricard & Trinh Xuan Thuan, 'The Quantum and the Lotus: A >>>> Journey to the Frontiers Where Science and Buddhism Meet',p.121) >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
