John, all, I'll have time to read this a bit later, but I justw wanted to say one quick thing about limits. Even "thank you" has a limit!
I am only Tim, Thanks all. On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:31:32 -0800, "John Carl" <[email protected]> said: > Tim, > > I really appreciate this. I'm going to try and do your concerns justice > in > a line by line fashion, so I don't miss any of your points. I think you > are > off-base in a couple of areas, but don't let that take away from my > appreciation of your central point, which reveals a deep caring. > > > > I have been lying in bed trying to sleep, and I've thought of two things > > that I want to get off my chest. > > > > > I lay away and think about MD too. Such engagement with the process is > what > gives me hope in the end and keeps me trying, even when it doesn't seem > to > be going anywhere. > > > > > A long while back you had said something very much like: getting a man > > to change the way he talks/interacts is like trying to make an ugly guy > > handsome. The second thing you said pretty recently, it was something > > like: dmb, I will never butt into one of your conversations without your > > wanting me to do so, ever again. Both are related; and both would be a > > big problem I think if they went unchecked ----- that is, sometimes you > > have to put the wall right in front of you, on purpose. We do not > > choose our biology; in fact, so it seems, we do not choose to be born. > > I have said that the things we choose reveal who we are. An ugly man > > and a handsome man don't seem to have choice in that; they are > > temporary/provincial trappings. A man can choose how he voices himself! > > > > Very good and exactly right. I myself try very hard to be deliberate in > my > choices and voices, for in the world of e-mail discussion, we have > nothing > else to go on but the sincerity of our words. So be sure that I don't > speak > lightly when I proclaim a cessation of interaction, or more specifically > in > this case, a cessation of unwanted interaction (that's an important > caveat, > btw) > > > > > I think life is diverse enough to keep things interesting between > > people who choose wisely --- that is, compassion, concern, etc. > > shouldn't become boring. (If it ever does, someone will have to cross > > that bridge then.) > > > > > > "Boring" is definitely NOT an issue here. > > > > Anyway, to the second. It is real easy to speak in superlatives. These > > superlatives can hide the important stuff behind the masks. On the > > other hand, once seeing behind the mask becomes conventional, all the > > qualifiers like 'probably', and 'maybe', and 'I think', which are quite > > important, might be able to be dropped conventionally for ease of > > speaking. This is something I caution against. Anyway, I think such a > > superlative as 'will never' is something you might come to regret. > > Fortunately, I think you deserve the right to take it back. Life > > doesn't hold one to such things. But your reputation does suffer. > > > > Well as to my reputation... one nice thing about life on the "low road" > is > that I don't have to worry too much about such things. > > I had qualms and regrets, even while typing my superlative "never". But > yet, I did it anyway. The caveat "unwillingly" does leave the door open > to > future engagement if dmb ever wanted any. I'm pretty doubtful of that > though. You'd have to review a lot of our history if you were to > understand > fully the whole story, but dmb has argued for my exclusion from this > forum > for a long time and has expressed nothing but contempt for my viewpoint. > I > honestly think it'd be easier to get a facelift and turn into a handsome > man, than change who I fundamentally am. If there are misunderstandings, > those can be rectified. But how can I rectify "nausea"? That's a > visceral > reaction that can't be argued away. > > > > > > So, together, I would suggest - certainly for a case like this, where > > you went out of your way to say it, and it wasn't just a slip-up - that > > you consider this advice, that you come to agree with it (or help me see > > why I am being unfair), and that you inform dmb of your reneging on that > > comment. Further, it seems you have kicked a surprised man when he is > > down. > > > Here is where I think you're wrong. I don't get dmb being "down" at all. > Maybe you know something I don't. But I've had no indication of this. > Second, I can't see my "kicking" to be any sort of consequence to dmb. > His > opinion of me is so low that my kicks mean absolutely nothing to him. > Who > cares what a poor white trash plebian thinks? As Adrie has so kindly > pointed out, I will never amount to anything and dmb has all kinds of > academic success and applause so there's no reason to conclude that my > cessation of interaction with him means anything at all to him. > > > > > So while loneliness can be a bitch, such dickery might be even > > worse!!! I think you own him an apology. I meant what I said about > > dmb. I think he is real smart, and before too long he will be back > > kicking ass - in a good way. > > > > Yours, > > Tim > > > In spite of everything, I wish him well on his High Road, > > But as for me... > > "I've never known a love so strong, or so crazy when done wrong." > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UjLTdNMfig > > > Thanks for caring, Tim. You're a good man and a most welcome addition to > this conversation. > > John > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html -- [email protected] -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or over the web Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
