Andre, After reading your post (at the bottom 6:41 pm) I didn't know what point you were trying to make. If you were simply asking if I thought myself to be a mystic, my answer is no.
Marsha > On Mar 19, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Andre Broersen wrote: > > Andre: > Hello MOQ'ers! > Those who are left on this discuss to talk about Pirsig's MOQ are now called > dogmatists! Any attempt and/or counter argument citing Pirsig and other > supporting evidence (e.g. James) used by these dogmatic MOQ contributors to > point to the misconceptions/misunderstandings/dead ends/irrelevancies to > Pirsig's MOQ by other posters are in their turn asked to justify their > premise through misunderstanding or simple ignorance or bloody minded > stubbornness ( Mark suggesting to dmb that he (Mark) has 'yet to see some > fundamental premises of MoQ coming through your posts'... obviously never > even read the archives and dmb's impressive energy put in every post he has > posted!!). This is really frustrating and insulting! > > So when Marsha asks me to clarify my point ( Marsha confuses DQ with sq) she > claims "I do not get it'. > And John is still after confirmation of his 'Absolute' Roycean flavour. > > I am sorry but to have the tables turned on 'dogmatists' for proof and > supportive evidence whilst quoting this evidence from its original source and > supporting ideas mentioned in that original source and then ( by the so > called non-dogmatists) to still claim ignorance is intellectual dishonesty at > its worst. > > My only recourse left is to urge Mark, Marsha, John etc to read ZMM and LILA. > It is that simple. Then we can have a conversation. >> On Mar 18, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Andre Broersen wrote: >> >> Andre: >> Are you by any chance trying to echo the way Mr. Pirsig dealt with the >> mystic's objections to a Metaphysics of Quality Marsha? (Chapter 5, pp 67/8) >> It seems to me that your comments are an attempt to reflect a dynamic >> perspective? I also seem to remember that you, as Bodvar did, see Pirsig's >> MOQ as Reality. In other words the MOQ IS experience, the MOQ IS Quality, >> the MOQ IS Reality... . Is this the 'paradox' you are hinting at...that from >> your perspective it is possible to 'ache'? >> >> You consider yourself a mystic Marsha? >> >> From this perspective it is impossible to be 'aching for the people in >> Japan' since 'aching', 'people' and 'Japan' make no sense from a dynamic >> perspective. The conjunctive relation 'for' also makes no sense from this >> perspective since Quality is designated as 'the continuing flux', the >> undifferentiated aesthetic continuum'. These aforementioned nouns and their >> relations are static representations/ abstractions... you know, as posted on >> this list before in terms of the 'ladle' and the 'water'. >> >> Sounds like you're quite impressed with this perspective Marsha, a >> perspective within which you seem to feel quite comfortable. Reminds me of >> the time I worked in psychiatry when a colleague (psychiatric nurse) told me >> that, in one way, it was wonderful to be labeled insane... because the >> person was never held responsible for their actions or verbalizations. No, >> it was their 'insanity' talking and controlling...! >> >> Mr. Pirsig knows something about this state: >> 'The only time he had been more manic about an abstract idea was when he had >> first hit upon the idea of undefined Quality itself. The consequences of >> that first mania had been disastrous, and so now, this time, he told himself >> just to calm down and dig in. It was, for him, a great Dynamic breakthrough, >> but if he wanted to hang on to it he had better do some static latching as >> quickly and thoroughly as possible.(LILA, p 161) >> >> Sounds like very sound advice to me. After all we are here to talk about >> Pirsig's MOQ which is a static intellectual pattern of value. No paradox of >> any sort. Aching is a biological response to quality. >> >> Sticks and stones wont break my bones... (a la Tom Waits). >>> On Mar 17, 2011, at 4:33 PM, MarshaV wrote: >>> >>> Marsha to Andre: >>> Bugger off! Do you understand the word paradox? ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
