Dan, I think we get to the root of the disagreeement here so I just cut the other stuff for now, but..lets to it.
>Ron: > 2. Dynamic Quality is natural selection at work Dan: Natural selection is at work on the biological level, yes. Ron: Why not the other levels? undefined betterness is natural selection on every level. >Ron: > 3.Dynamic Quality is best understood as "betterness" Dan: "Betterness" and "not this, not that" are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are both pointing at Dynamic Quality. Ron: Ah, we get to it. I have a problem connecting the meaning of "no choice" with "betterness" . How is no choice, better? >Ron: > Making it a conflict of meaning between the ideas freedom from choice > and freedom is choice. Dan: We cannot say what is better except as an afterthought. So how is one to choose what is better? Ron: Indeed Dan, how DOES one choose what is better? I mean is'nt this the question? we have inorganic needs, biological needs, social needs and intellectual needs whats best is whats best for all levels, to harmonize goods. I think if the intellect is concerned with whats best for the environment biological health and fellow human beings it is aligned with betterness. This is better than seeking refuge from all choice. Wouldn't you agree? >Ron: > I think that the consequences of each makes enough of a difference > that a dialog concerning it directly influences the meaning and intent > of any "THE MoQ." Dan: So you believe there are many MOQs? Ron: SOM is a MOQ , because it's value all the way down, and experience is reality then it stands to reason that there are indeed many,the gallery of paintings metaphor comes to mind. >Ron: > I thought we were having some rather good discussions concerning it. Dan: We were. But then you seemed to go off on a tangent with Marsha. And, like Ham, I guess I am a bit frustrated... that's all. Ron: I can understand and I am doing my best to explain this point of view, I'm in the process of going through all of Pirsigs work I possess to support my case in this matter in regard to quotes. Hams frustrated because he is insisting on a particular point of view to be assumed before he can begin to have a conversation. I guess that is rather frustrating when no one is willing to adopt that point of view because it immediatly undercuts any arguement they make. Thanks Dan, I appreciate the patience, I do think some great dialog is evolving from all of it. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
