Ron, Why don't you explain how you understand the contradiction.
Marsha On May 29, 2011, at 9:19 AM, X Acto wrote: > Hey Marsha, > You do realize that these quotes conflict with the assertion that reification > IS > conceptualization. > > You may have won the battle but you lost the war in this regard. > > just pointing that out. > > -Ron > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: MarshaV <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 4:36:30 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] Keep on duckin' > > > On May 28, 2011, at 11:38 AM, david buchanan wrote: > >> dmb says: >> Again, I'll remind you that you repeatedly cited an enthusiastic William >> James >> fan to dispute William James. The quotes you post as evidence for your >> notion of >> reification do not support that notion at all. >> > > > Marsha: > > Here's more... > > > "Everything in the world that we conceive of and experience is related to the > mind. When that world is reified however, it appears to exist absolutely, in > its own right; and this mental distortion may lead one to wonder how nature > can > be comprehensible to the human mind. Einstein, who routed absolute space and > time from the universe, still clung to an absolute ontology. The centrist > view > presented here, which might be called _conceptual relativity_, fundamentally > challenges the realist ontological assumptions underlying virtually all of > Western science. Theory, in the form of conceptual designation permeates our > experience. As theory is not purely determined by some intrinsic nature o > reality, there is no one conceptual system that uniquely accounts for the > myriad > of natural phenomena. Objects exist relative to the theory-laden > consciousness > that experiences them. > > "From a centrists perspective, ontological absolutism is based on the mental > distortion known as reification. Reification in science is quite similar to > the > same process in everyday life. This stands to reason, since scientific > inquiry > itself bears so much in common with ordinary mental activity. Einstein made > the > following distinction between the two: "The scientific way of forming > concepts > differers from that which we use in our daily life, not basically, but merely > in > the more precise definition of concepts and conclusions; more painstaking and > systematic choice of experimental material; and greater logical economy. > > "The process of reification, as we have noted previously, forms the basis for > everyday realism, and it is present eve in young children. According to the > child psychologist Jean Piaget, a child first constructs a concept related to > the world and then projects it out into the world. The concept is > externalized > so that it appears to be a perceptually given object or property, independent > of > the subject's own mental activity. As we can see from our own experience, > the > phenomena that we perceive in the external world appear to exist > independently > of our perceptions and conceptions. Here is perhaps the most fundamental > reason > for believing in an objective universe independent of consciousness: that is > simply how the world appears. But does the world in fact exist the way it > appears, or is its mode of existence incongruous with its mode of appearance? > > > > "Everyday and scientific realism differ, however, in the types of things that > are reified. Where as the former chiefly reifies objects and properties that > appear to our senses, the latter reifies the existence of noumenal entities > that > lie behind appearances. Thus, subatomic particles, electromagnetic fields, > and > the zero-point energy of the vacuum are assumed to exist independently of the > theories in which they are conceived. That is, they really exist "out there" > in > the objective world, independent of human existence. > > "The tendency of reification among mathematicians is particularly > interesting. > Philip Davis and Reuben Hersh comment in their book 'Descartes' Dream: The > World > According to Mathematics' that many modern mathematicians regard their > discipline as a system of deductive structures in which deduction moves from > axiom to conclusions, and the axioms are "simply playthings." This attitude > suggests a formalists view of mathematics one the Davis and Hersh assert is > generally instilled into today's students. Yet in a later chapter they claim > that nearly all mathematicians hold Platonist conception of mathematics > nearly > all the time. This view asserts that mathematics exists independently of the > world; it exists prior to and apart from the universe, and and it will go on > even when the cosmos comes to an end. Thus, the world of mathematics exists > independently of the mathematician, whose job is to discover and record what > is > already there. What is this telling us? It would seem th > at most mathematicians, when they philosophize about mathematics, profess a > formalist view, but the rest of the time (especially when they are actually > doing mathematics) they revert to a realist stance. This may well be true of > many scientists as well. The natural tendency of reification, which we have > had > since childhood, is extremely difficult to eradicate from our habits of > thinking > and perceiving." > > (Wallace, B. Alan, 'Choosing Reality, : A Buddhist View of Physics and > the > Mind',2003,pp.120-123) > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
