On Jul 1, 2011, at 2:44 PM, Joseph Maurer wrote: > > > > On 7/1/11 3:35 AM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On Jul 1, 2011, at 4:40 AM, MarshaV wrote: >> >>> >>> On Jul 1, 2011, at 3:49 AM, Jan-Anders Andersson wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> 30 jun 2011 kl. 21.07 Marsha wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Jun 28, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Jan-Anders Andersson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for your humble answer. >>>>>> >>>>>> 28 jun 2011 kl. 15.41 Marsho wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2011, at 1:40 AM, Jan-Anders Andersson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Marsha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 27 jun 2011 kl. 18.44 sMarsha wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not to be repeating myself, I neither accept the notion of freewill, >>>>>>>>> nor reject it. Same goes with determinism and causation. I accept >>>>>>>>> that these are conventional (static) notions, but not Ultimately real. >>>>>>>>> While living within a conventional culture it seems wise to sustain >>>>>>>>> social and biological patterns whenever necessary for one will be held >>>>>>>>> responsible to that level's "moral" code (laws and punishment. ) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Even if you neither accept nor reject it. I really would like to >>>>>>>> understand what you mean with "The notion of Free Will". Please. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jan-Anders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marsha, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It means whatever it conventional means. What is the meaning of the >>>>>>> pattern named Justice? How would you describe its meaning? How would >>>>>>> you describe the meaning of any pattern. I understand static patterns >>>>>>> to represent a collection of interdependent, ever-changing particular >>>>>>> momentary events (process) which constantly change as they arise, abide >>>>>>> and pass away: and as they are continually altered by an individual?s >>>>>>> static history and the dynamics of the event. I have mentioned before >>>>>>> that I tend also to think of patterns, pattern(x) for instance, to >>>>>>> include all-that-is opposite-from-non-pattern(x). That may include a >>>>>>> dictionary definition. - The horns of a rabbit might be a static >>>>>>> notion >>>>>>> or pattern. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How well do you think you understand my explanation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> Not really sure. You intend to sell a Norwegian Blue Parrot? >>>>>> >>>>>> Try again, please. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jan-Anders >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jan-Anders, >>>>> >>>>> Within this conventional reality, I tend to think of patterns of value not >>>>> as fixed or >>>>> frozen or reified, but as events or processes, much more fluid and >>>>> relational. >>>>> Defining a spov as all that is opposite-from-non-pattern keeps them closer >>>>> to >>>>> experience in the conventional sense. imho >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> Hi Marsha >>>> >>>> I wonder if you remember my earlier posts some year ago when I described >>>> how >>>> we can prolong the Kantian questioning of the perceptions that we got and >>>> how it is separated from the the object (a table) per se? >>>> >>>> We can put another table upon the first table and find that there are >>>> things >>>> that we can say about the table per se as it has a RELATION to the other >>>> table and that it is this relation between them that is undeniable and >>>> objectively exists as we can prove it by comparing them to each other. >>>> Positivism.. comparing, measuring, creating a relation to a standard ruler >>>> or something like that. This is also what Descartes did when he put his own >>>> thinking in RELATION to his own thinking and found that to make a relation >>>> there must exist real relative objects. Cogito ergo sum... >>>> >>>> The relation between fixed patterns are the interesting thing, not so much >>>> the patterns per se. But the patterns are important in the same way as >>>> letters and combinations of letters are making words and sentences. Just >>>> because the meaning of a word or a sentence can be discussed and make >>>> people >>>> laugh doesn't mean that also the letters themselves have to be funny. >>>> >>>> Quality is very interesting just as static patterns. Dynamic patters like >>>> evolution and growth, drama and soap or just normal living in either a >>>> romantic or classic view, conscious or unconscious, about art, arete, >>>> quality, are ways of experiencing and better understanding The Quality. Our >>>> goal is to better understand and dance with Quality. RMP's contribution >>>> with >>>> the MOQ and the 4 levels are very useful, isn't it? >>>> >>>> May I? >>>> >>>> Right? Left? East? >>>> >>>> Jan-Anders >>> >>> >>> Greetings Jan-Anders, >>> >>> Off the top of my head... No way do I experience patterns as a fixed >>> ideals. >>> They are ever-changing, impermanent and relative. Another reason I like the >>> all that is opposite-from-non-pattern(x) is because it represents a whole. >>> Using justice again, both the foreground (justice) and the background >>> (non-justice) are present. One is less likely to isolate or privilege the >>> foreground over the background, and also less likely to substantiate the >>> foreground (justice). The relationships are always present. >>> >>> Yes, the four levels are extremely useful. But for me the emphasis is how >>> to >>> break the natural tendency to reify. The subject-object habit needs to be, >>> at least, loosened. Replacing the word object with the word pattern just >>> doesn't cut it. Of course this opposite-from-non-pattern strategy is still >>> an intellectual exercise, and needs experience to reinforce it. Meditation. >>> imho As far as letters go, A, whether it be a letter, a word or a concept, >>> is always in relation to non-A; that's whether the relationship is >>> acknowledged or not. The either/or-subject/object way of defining the world >>> is expanded. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> ___ >> >> >> J-A, >> >> To put it more firmly, I find nothing to exist that is fixed, discrete or >> permanent, not even in the nature of ghostly patterns >> >> >> Marsha > > > Hi Marsha, > > I agree Nothing and Existence cancel each other out. One is important > metaphysically as well as mathematically. > > Joe
Hi Joe, Like Value is the ONE which exists and connects MANY? Isn't that the Tao? Marsha ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
