Hi J-A, Now it's my turn to thank you for your humility? There are many truths, as such, yours is just one among many...
Marsha On Jul 6, 2011, at 5:55 AM, Jan-Anders Andersson wrote: > Hi Mark > > Sorry to make you disappointed but I am no Dutch, I am Swedish. You can find > me on Youtube, search for Jananderss. The name Jan-Anders is greek and would > be translated to First Man in english. Altough I've got an elder brother so > actually I was the second son. I am glad my parents didn't call me Parcifal. > A good example that shows that B doesn't strictly follow A. Which is > characteristic of human free will. > > One characteristic of humanity separate from other organic species is that > their kids does not follow their parents habits. If human children would try > to perfectly imitate their parents like buffalo calves or young chickens do, > then humanity still would be climbing trees or wandering around along the > border between land and the sea eating raw fish, seeds and carrots. And there > would not be thousands of different fundamentalistic churches of unreason on > Earth. > > Humanity doesn't follow deterministic laws even if many would like it to be > so to feel more safe and ensured. Free will entail to some extent that not > everyones behaviour is statistically predictable which for some people is a > quite worrying issue. There will always be some freaks out there that will > perform Unnatural Acts and come up with Mutated Mind stuff. Like Pirsig, > Zappa, Einstein or Planck. > > Of course there are time. Time is the space around events that makes events > happen. Change is the ultimate evidence for the existence of time. > > The events at the 4th level are like game rules, art or just music. It is so > fking fun to just play around. It was nice to see that you had some quality > experience from playing basket ball. If you don't like playing with the ball > maybe you could try playing some music or just sing a simple song. You can't > do that if you aren't equipped with free will and with a certain amount of > available time, do you? Frank Zappa claimed "You can't do that on stage > anymore" because what he did is already in the past, it is history. But we > can do something else. That is why Music is the best. This is also why I > don't believe in mindfucking yourself. > > I am having a real good time following this forums mindbouncing. David > Buchanan, Matt Kundert and Horse are really sharp. I do like Marshas > buffoonery too which completes the picture af MD filling up the casting for > Commedia dell'arte. Most of the contributors in MD seem to be searching for > THE one and only Truth. But there is not One Truth. Value is caused by more > truths. Events are a result from a division between the momentual reality and > what it could be. Quality experience is the meeting between how it is and how > it it could be. Value is created by the division between these two. The > bigger the difference, the stronger power or will to make a change. Logic > condtions separates the possible from the impossible. The intercourse between > different events creates the individual pragmatic value of the other event. > Sue likes Bob but Bob is more interested in Lila... > > I am working on a little pamflet which I plan to be ready about the end of > next year. It is about quality and is based upon the lowest common > denominator of the 4 levels. In fact this is another set of four; time and > the meeting of 3 independent conditions which together creates value. The > true moralic imperative we could call it. > > Beware of your mind, it may keep you alive and fooling around! > > Enjoy > > Jan-Anders > > > > 6 jul 2011 Mark wrote: > >> Hi J-A, >> As I recall, you are Dutch. So, based on my once fluent Dutch, your >> name means "other than John". This would mean that you are >> "Not-John". So the saying "Not this, Not that" should be easy for >> your to grasp. But, I know, it is hard. It is not a riddle, or some >> mystical truth. It is not something beyond this or that. It doesn't >> even relate to this or that, and it is not the opposite of these >> things. It is not Nothing either. Which one would think makes it >> Something, but it is not. >> >> It is not to get you to get something, like some short commercial that >> we are so fond of here in the US. It is not professed by some >> Hollywood star, or superstar athlete as the latest in enlightenment. >> It is quite simple and not some deep truth passed on through the ages >> of time. So, Not-John, what is it? >> >> More below. >> >> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Jan-Anders Andersson >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Mark >>> >>> 4 jul 2011 kl. 21.04 Mark wrote: >>> >>>> It is clear that there are many ways to define Quality, but no way to >>>> describe it. ?That is, that there is no way to wrap Quality up with >>>> words. ?The problem with good wrapping, is that it hides what is being >>>> wrapped. ?And, once wrapped, it is difficult to unwrap without >>>> extensive personal training by the wrapper. ?The same can be said for >>>> encoding secret messages. >>>> >>>> As a definition amongst many, one can equate Quality with Will. ?Both >>>> are active nouns, and both imply direction. ?The quality of things >>>> denotes their appearance. ?This a world of appearances which means it >>>> is a world of Quality. ?Will is also expression. ?Both do not require >>>> for there to be something that is expressed, they arise without cause. >>>> >>>> For clarification, I will present what I mean by Will. ?Human will is >>>> a primary feature of our being. ?It is what delivers our >>>> consciousness. ?It provides drive, resolve, and intent. ?It creates >>>> direction for each of us, and gives us the propensity to change >>>> direction. ?It lies outside of determinism, and is often termed >>>> "Free". ?It gives us the capacity to live outside the boundaries of >>>> determined direction. ?Besides humans, all things have Will. ?A river >>>> may express it as a rushing through a valley. ?A metal may display a >>>> resolve to remain together and not scatter freely. ?Predators display >>>> a will to catch, and preys are equally willful in escaping. ?The sun >>>> attempts to pull the planets into itself, and the planets are just as >>>> willful in remaining free, thus resulting in an long game until one >>>> wins. ?So, that is how I am using will. ?It is not obstinance, >>>> wishful-thinking, or a promise made. >>>> >>>> The Will to Survive, or the Will to Die are two ends of the same >>>> thing, that is Will. ?Therefore, Will and Quality are two words for >>>> the same thing. ?Anything with Will is also with Quality. ?Anything >>>> with Quality, denotes Will. >>>> >>>> In Chapter 28, Phaedrus is reading about Greek excellence and is >>>> fascinated by "duty to self", this can also be construed as Will. ?He >>>> goes on to realize that Quality was present before anything. ?We are >>>> born as Will, there is nothing else, just pure Will. ?This then begins >>>> to change from the first minute after birth. ?Where was it before >>>> that? ?Or as the Buddhist would say, "What did your face look like >>>> before you were born?" >>>> >>>> And, so, I have come to the end of my exposition. ?Any comments? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Mark >>> >>> "What did your face look like before you were born?" >> >> [Mark] >> Yes, what did your face look like before you were born? It is a >> simple question which can be answered simply. All it takes is a >> little thought. What did you look like before this lifetime? Travel >> back in your mind, and you will see. Just sit with it for as long as >> it takes. Peek through the curtains, or just imagine it sitting right >> next to you, less than a nanometer away, kind of like seeing double >> overlapping you's. Just shift a very very little to your right and >> see what it feels like. This is not magic or fantasy, or religion, or >> dogma, or mysticism, or politics, or coercion, or exploitation, or >> anything like that. It is just you. You gotta love it! >>> >>> Not this and not that. ?:-) >>> >>> More seriously I would search for the lowest common denominator of the 4 >>> levels. >>> Which is Quality. >>> >>> There is a way to direct experience of The Quality: >>> Take a basket ball, use your hand and bounce it to the floor. You can >>> experience how Quality works when you find what force (Will), tempo >>> (pattern) and the joy (pragmatic meaning) is needed to make it happen. >>> Atoms are energy in a kind of bounce with differnet patterns. organic >>> events are another higher kind of bounce. Societies are even more >>> complicated events with enrgy, cultural pattern and Yield. Intellectual >>> bounces are the events of the 4th level. >> >> [Mark] >> This reminds me when I was a superstar basket ball player. This >> wasn't hard since I went to the Leysin American School in Switzerland >> and b-ball was not their specialty, it was more like rock-climbing. >> But anyway, sometimes on the court I would get into the "Zone" (what >> is the Dutch for that?). Me, the ball, and the basket would all >> become directly connected, and I could not miss a shot. Yes, this is >> Quality of the dynamic variety. I have often said that DQ lies in the >> moment. It is as simple as that. Live in the moment (I mean really >> in the moment) and you live as DQ. There are no hands, no legs, no >> distance, no basket. There is no time since time does not exist in >> the moment. It only exists moment to moment. >> >> Dag, >> Mark Smit >>> >>> Bounce bounce >>> >>> Jan-Anders >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
