Horse: Reality is DQ and SQ.
Marsha: I see no disagreement in what you've written here. None at all. None. None. None! I thought the Reality is Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience) is just what you were saying too. And I think you are correct about bringing 'delusion' into the discussion. Andre: I have just returned from work ( yes, I work in the weekends to make the 'ends' meet, with the 'week' having fallen away as employment goes) and I noticed Marsha's approval. This, of course made me extra suspicious! With this statement, as you well know Horse, you have given your approval to Marsha's antics on this site and fully legitimize her continued low quality, nihilistic, narcissistic contributions. I say: Reality is NOT DQ and SQ! Pirsig relates Quality with Reality. Reality/Quality is pure experience. It may even be questioned if one can speak of Quality as being able to be 'experienced'. ( I personally think not, because in pure experience, pure Quality, all is one, all distinctions have fallen away...one cannot even speak of 'experience', one cannot speak of 'one'. There just is. It is not experience...but I am diverting). Reality is NOT DQ and SQ. To keep it simple: conventional reality ( with a small 'r') is DQ/sq. And this is the world we live in. "The idea that the world (sq) is composed of nothing but moral value... etc" I am sure you know it by heart Horse (the beginning lines of chapter 8 in LILA) and it is the world we live in. But can this be equated with pure experience? NO! This is confusing the static point of view with the Dynamic point of view. Pirsig interchanges these sometimes in LILA and I am thankfull to Paul Turner for having drawn my attention to this. But Pirsig has made it abundantly clear that his MOQ is the STATIC representation of Reality. The static manifestation of Quality. There is nothing illusory about this...nor delusional. Marsha just represents the static representation as illusion...NOW THAT IS DELUSION! Marsha keeps on confusing the two. Or rather she's up with the daisies as far as contributing meaningfully to this discuss because she IS up with them ( unfortunately not even with DQ...this dose we sometimes get from dear Khoo Hock Aun)...the daisies I mean...she is continuously deluding herself, and that is why she is so destructive. Horse: DQ alone is not Reality Andre: Oh yes it is, as I have tried to explain above.And this is all of course imho and invite criticism. 'Again and again I ask myself was I wrong?'( Phil Collins) Even if you knew the answer to that Phil, would you have acted differently?...given the same circumstances, the same ideas the same hang ups. I doubt it. Only after the fact. But that does not exist. We live after the fact and live with it. We act in the moment of now and we make quality decisions/judgements accordingly. In hindsight we can 'Cry Baby Cry" or "Yea Baby Yea" and even carry our notions of 'hind sight' with us...as though we have learned. But what will we do 'in the moment'? We simply act as best as we know how, given the circumstances. We make quality and Quality decisions. What's the difference? We only know in hindsight. The past exists only in our memories, the future only in our plans. The present is our only reality. (ZMM p 241) More than enough for now. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
