Marsha:
Reality = Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience).
On Sep 11, 2011, at 4:40 PM, Andre Broersen wrote:
> Horse:
>
> Reality is DQ and SQ.
>
> Marsha:
> I see no disagreement in what you've written here. None at all. None.
> None. None! I thought the Reality is Quality(unpatterned
> experience/patterned experience) is just what you were saying too. And I
> think you are correct about bringing 'delusion' into the discussion.
>
> Andre:
> I have just returned from work ( yes, I work in the weekends to make the
> 'ends' meet, with the 'week' having fallen away as employment goes) and I
> noticed Marsha's approval. This, of course made me extra suspicious!
>
> With this statement, as you well know Horse, you have given your approval to
> Marsha's antics on this site and fully legitimize her continued low quality,
> nihilistic, narcissistic contributions.
>
> I say: Reality is NOT DQ and SQ!
>
> Pirsig relates Quality with Reality. Reality/Quality is pure experience. It
> may even be questioned if one can speak of Quality as being able to be
> 'experienced'. ( I personally think not, because in pure experience, pure
> Quality, all is one, all distinctions have fallen away...one cannot even
> speak of 'experience', one cannot speak of 'one'. There just is. It is not
> experience...but I am diverting).
>
> Reality is NOT DQ and SQ. To keep it simple: conventional reality ( with a
> small 'r') is DQ/sq. And this is the world we live in.
>
> "The idea that the world (sq) is composed of nothing but moral value... etc"
> I am sure you know it by heart Horse (the beginning lines of chapter 8 in
> LILA) and it is the world we live in. But can this be equated with pure
> experience? NO! This is confusing the static point of view with the Dynamic
> point of view. Pirsig interchanges these sometimes in LILA and I am thankfull
> to Paul Turner for having drawn my attention to this.
>
> But Pirsig has made it abundantly clear that his MOQ is the STATIC
> representation of Reality. The static manifestation of Quality. There is
> nothing illusory about this...nor delusional. Marsha just represents the
> static representation as illusion...NOW THAT IS DELUSION!
>
> Marsha keeps on confusing the two. Or rather she's up with the daisies as far
> as contributing meaningfully to this discuss because she IS up with them (
> unfortunately not even with DQ...this dose we sometimes get from dear Khoo
> Hock Aun)...the daisies I mean...she is continuously deluding herself, and
> that is why she is so destructive.
>
> Horse:
> DQ alone is not Reality
>
> Andre:
> Oh yes it is, as I have tried to explain above.And this is all of course imho
> and invite criticism.
>
> 'Again and again I ask myself was I wrong?'( Phil Collins)
>
> Even if you knew the answer to that Phil, would you have acted
> differently?...given the same circumstances, the same ideas the same hang
> ups. I doubt it. Only after the fact. But that does not exist. We live after
> the fact and live with it. We act in the moment of now and we make quality
> decisions/judgements accordingly. In hindsight we can 'Cry Baby Cry" or "Yea
> Baby Yea" and even carry our notions of 'hind sight' with us...as though we
> have learned. But what will we do 'in the moment'? We simply act as best as
> we know how, given the circumstances. We make quality and Quality decisions.
> What's the difference? We only know in hindsight.
>
> The past exists only in our memories, the future only in our plans. The
> present is our only reality. (ZMM p 241)
>
> More than enough for now.
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