On 11/28/11 4:19 PM, "Steven Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote: >Steve > Consulting mystical reality to tell us what is true and false > is a possible demand that I suppose someone could make of us (and a very > silly demand that would be (pray on it!)), but mystical reality itself > makes no such demand.
Dave: As I understand it there is no mystic reality per se. The mystic claims that that through mystic experience(s) one can "directly experience" (ever seen this phase before) reality as it really IS. They also claim experience like I have on a day to day basis is always somewhat removed from reality as it really is. Primarily because of my lack of attention and my intellect getting in the way. Pirsig says that in ZaMM, "Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual abstractions." (Lila-pg 33). Later on under the MoQ, "Dynamic Quality is the pre-intellectual cutting edge of reality." Although RMP doesn't say it, could it be said that under the MoQ DYNAMIC Quality is direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual abstractions? I think it could. Others here have claimed that this "direct experience" is the same as James' "pure experience" and pointed to this quote: "Pure experience¹ is the name which I give to the immediate flux of life which furnishes the material to our later reflection with its conceptual categories...."(William James from A Pluralistic Universe). Often overlooked is what directly follows this quote. ".....Only new-born babes, or men in semi-coma from sleep, drugs, illnesses, or blows, may be assumed to have an experience pure in the literal sense of that which is not yet any definite what, tho ready to be all sorts of what; full both of oneness and of manyness, but in respects that don¹t appear; changing throughout, yet so confusedly that its phases interpenetrate and no points, either of distinction or of identity, can be caught" (William James from A Pluralistic Universe). Which RMP, with no reference to James, eerily echoes: "Phaedrus saw that not only a man recovering from a heart attack but also a baby gazes at his hand with mystic wonder and delight. He remembered the child Poincare referred to who could not understand the reality of objective science at all but was able to understand the reality of value perfectly. When this reality of value is divided into static and Dynamic areas a lot can be explained about that baby's growth that is not well explained otherwise." (Lila-pg 58) So what is being said, IMHO, is the "highest quality", "pure" experience of reality is, except for mystics, outside the realm of normal perception or only available through special training or traditions. Ie Buddhism or some such. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
