Hi Joe, There are plenty of things that do inherently exist. There is nothing conventional about them, in fact they are unconventional since they do exist in a world where there is no inherent existence..
Operant conditioning leads some to think of the non-existence because they choose a convention in which they believe in the non-existence of things except through deterministic causes. Such people become patterns of a philosophy, and are entirely predictable unless they can appropriately choose the analogy of reductive analogies. They intelligently close the circle of analogies in that way. They tend to organize things into conventional existents of innumerable qualities, and tend to "work" under these conditions which makes them grounded in a very useful philosophy. This Marsha quite correctly uses to her advantage to cut through the entanglement in a very useful and meaningful way, thus the convention of non- inherent existence. Her point was well said. So, Marsha is correct with her denial of inherent existence. I believe she has got it. I believe it comes from her static pattern of life history. Through the use of this she can form static patterns which are conventional. This leads to great insight which can be applied to the nature of what is. Marsha is unconventionally conventional, which I consider high praise. She has formed a very good belief which I am learning from. The patterns which make me are adjusting in a good way as the result of their causes. It brings me great peace. Honestly, Mark On Dec 20, 2011, at 11:55 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Joe, > > There is no "something" that inherently exists. I never said of anything > that it _did not exist_. Things or patterns conventionally exist. They do > not exist from their own side. Static patterns of value are processes: > conditionally co-dependent, impermanent, ever-changing and conceptualized > that pragmatically tend to persist and change within a stable, predictable > pattern. Within the MoQ, these patterns are categorized into a four-level, > evolutionary, hierarchical structure: inorganic, biological, social and > intellectual. These patterns, exists in stable patterns relative to other > patterns. Patterns depend upon innumerable causes and conditions (patterns), > depend upon parts and the collection of parts (patterns), depend upon > conceptual designation (patterns). Patterns have no independent, inherent > existence. Further, these patterns represent "what works" depending upon on > an individual's static pattern of life history. > > Marsha > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 20, 2011, at 4:35 PM, Joseph Maurer <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Marsha and All, >> >> If something is indefinable is it non-existent? The word "inherent" clouds >> the formation of logic in existence. It tries to introduce the hierarchy, >> "evolution", before describing the metaphysics for the logic of evolution. >> >> Evolution seems to be used by Pirsig as a logical order in existence for the >> conception of reality. Once evolution is conceptualized as DQ/SQ, >> indefinable reality is perceived outside the logical definition of >> mathematics since DQ is indefinable. 0 is defined as being non divisible. >> >> I accept that Metaphysics not Physics embraces the evolutionary hierarchy >> that can be discussed as levels in existence. Metaphysics achieves this >> prior to the conception that mathematical logic defines all. Hence the word >> metaphysics! DQ/SQ is the logic for existential reality like an evolution >> in existence, accessible to all, MOQ. >> >> Joe >> >> >> On 12/19/11 11:47 PM, "MarshaV" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> That is Ultimate Reality, Dynamic Quality, is empty of inherent existence. >> >> >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
