Hi John, All I can say is "as above, so below". Mark
On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:04 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > My 19 year old daughter did something strange to my metaphorical brain the > other day, along these lines you lay out here. She wrote the numbers 3.14 > down and asked me, "what's this dad?" And I told her, Pi. And then she > said, read it backwards, what does it spell? And since her "4" was > constructed in such a way as to appear very like a backwards "p". I saw > immediately, in a sort of Grecian scripty way, exactly what she was getting > at. Something I'd never noticed before. > > > > On Dec 19, 2011, at 12:27 PM, David Thomas <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> All, >> >> This and other threads for the last few weeks have been exploring >> "psychology" vis-a-viz Pirsig's work. I suppose this was stimulated by the >> posting of Andre's transcript of RMP's AHP presentation on Ant's website. I >> remember when I first skimmed it I was struck when I heard these things," >> >> "My wife and I both went down and we were planning what we would do today >> and say today and one question that came up was: "What in the world does a >> Metaphysics of Quality have to do with psychotherapy?" and I said "Well, it >> provides an overview... it provides you [with] a kind of a road map, a kind >> of a structure, a theory of everything into which the practice of psychiatry >> and psychology might fit...." >> >> 'And… I think his [answer to this] question will be "I don't know. That's >> not my department, that's your department" >> >> Then in response being asked and reading Maslow's work he says, " It's not >> my field, so it's a real surprise to me to see that he was saying a lot of >> things....." >> >> What? It's not your "department", your "field"? I seem to recall Phaedrus >> being taken aback by the Chairman's asking about his, "substantive field." >> Particularly when he stating that "English" (writing?) was not one! >> Then, "You're proposing a radically new metaphysics, a theory of everything, >> and you overlooked psychology? Which Wiki defines as, "... is the study of >> the mind, partly via the study of behavior.[1] Its immediate goal is to >> understand individuals and groups by both establishing general principles >> and researching specific cases.[2][3]" >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology >> >> How can one subscribe to James' "radical empiricism" and not be at least >> mildly interested in psychology given he is thought of as the "father of >> American psychology?" How can one point to Buddhist philosophy and not >> understand that, in addition to its philosophy, it is the oldest, >> continuously running, "brand" of psychotherapy on the planet? A >> psychotherapy you now seem to subscribe to, or practice in some degree? >> >> But then I remembered that Pirsig's experience with the practice of American >> psychotherapy had not been a particularly pleasant experience. Enough so >> that it might put one off his feed and the field forever. And psychology >> suffers from the same or similar problems as he found in anthropology. They >> are both one set of humans trying to study other sets of humans. How does, >> or can one, do that without introducing all kinds of personal, social, or >> cultural biases? And by trying limit these biases do you create the Boas >> problem? Or the Dusenberry problem? As Mark has eluded to since their >> conception there has always been a skepticism by "hard" sciences to the >> "science" of the humanities. It's "quasi-science" or "soft" science, with >> psychology perhaps being one of the "softest". I think this is an >> unfortunate application of adjectives. Psychology is actually a very, very, >> hard science to do. Astrophysics or quantum mechanics is actually a breeze >> to do and understand compared to trying to understand the working of any >> mind, even your own. >> >> Later on in the AHP transcript we read: >> >> Question? 'If value doesn't inhere in either the subject or the object, and >> we react to it on a non-intellectual basis as you indicated in your recent >> comments is this not a sort of , that it is some sort of transcendental or >> even Platonic in that philosophical sense which we tune into when we address >> a student essay or a watch or whatever… am I correct in my view?' >> >> Pirsig: 'I think that is correct, yes.' >> >> Question: 'My question is leading to the intuitive value of it… you quiet >> your mind, you get a lot of back ground noise out the room, are you tapping >> into your intuitive self or is it the innate good that you are addressing?' >> >> Pirsig: 'The term "intuitive" is a competitive word with Quality actually. >> Intuitive, I see as a mixture of Dynamic Quality and emotional quality or >> some biological quality. But I do see what you mean by intuitive in this >> particular context, I think it's what I mean by Dynamic Quality.' >> >> Here's a personal "intuitive" example for you. After reading this for some >> reason my mind started running through the ABC's..... Like I was trying to >> remember where "Q" fell or something. "..pause HIJK...pause...LMNOP...pause >> QRS.....wait a minute, wait a minute!" Isn't that odd "Q" is bracketed by R >> and P. The first letters of Pirsig's first and last name. And then the >> series ...MNOPQ.. If you strike the "N" you have, not only the letters of >> MOQ, but RMP the first letters of his full name. Strange. Continuing you get >> to M-OPQR the acronym for "Metaphysics of Psychological Quality Reform" >> >> Oh yes, the psychology, or theory of the mind and it's workings are going to >> be very, very hard indeed. And the MoQ is of course dependant on it. >> >> Jeez, I think I may need therapy! But I too fear the men in the white coats. >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
