Yes, the engrained "normal" perspective must be the majority view by definition - the mystical insight must be the exception, once the paradigm shift has happened it ceases to be a mystical insight .... but new mystical insights (leaps) are always possible.
BTW I think in "leap of faith", the only faith is in the leap being taken; in the taking of a leap in a mystical insightful way, rather than to or for any (authoritative) objective. Ian On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:24 AM, MarshaV <val...@att.net> wrote: > Ian, > > Great article! > > Also, ever consider that if a '180-degree-mystical' direct insight was > experienced by 95% of all human beings then this "180-degree-mystical" would > have been just the preliminaries to an evolutionary paradigm shift in human > understanding? > > I can make no sense in "faith in something" or how it relates to my > hesitation to surrender to authority. > > Marsha > > > On Jun 8, 2012, at 5:16 AM, Ian Glendinning <ian.glendinn...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Leap of faith, gumption, common sense ... yes. >> One thing's for sure the foundations of physical science is NOT >> another scientific theory / hypothesis / principle. >> See Carlo Rovelli http://www.psybertron.org/?p=4448 >> >> (PS Marsha, don't confuse leap of faith, with faith in something.) >> >> Ian >> >> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:17 AM, MarshaV <val...@att.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> p.s. As a leap of faith, faith in authority doesn't ultimately appeal to >>> me; that would be even a well respected authority. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 8, 2012, at 3:06 AM, MarshaV <val...@att.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Mr. Booth, >>>> >>>> I imagine, unless we're only interested in job security and maintaining >>>> the status quo, as a foundation we want direct insight (experience). The >>>> point was that while a product of experience, abstractions & >>>> generalizations (concepts) may stray too far from that experience to be >>>> meaningful, even intellectually meaningful. The MoQ is empirical, yes? >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 7, 2012, at 2:34 PM, Frank Booth <frankboot...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's funny to hear Ramanujan named. Mathematics has axioms as the "bottom >>>>> turtle" and R's english mentors being involved at the time in attempting >>>>> to lay down a solid self-contained foundation ( T.U.R.T.L.E.W.A.X. ). >>>>> Good intuition. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Value, not concepts: Yes indeed. I would go so far as to say Value and >>>>> Leap o' Faith are ( is? ) the very same tortuga. >>>>> >>>>> Leap of faith is really another way of saying Gumption. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From Gumption, the higher symmetries, turtle upon turtle. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: MarshaV <val...@att.net> >>>>> To: "moq_disc...@moqtalk.org" <moq_disc...@moqtalk.org> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 9:12 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] T.U.R.T.L.E.W.A.X. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Direct perceptions and experience (Value), not concepts. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 6, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Frank Booth <frankboot...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What is the name of the bottom turtle? >>>>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
