[Mark] The MOQ does not present a recursive world. [Arlo] The MOQs answer to recursion is undefinedness, which is fine and really that which separates itself from S/O approaches that attempt to define away recursion. In other words, it recognizes the inherent recursion in all intellectual descriptions of experience and says, "that's okay, we don't need to chase that rabbit, we can still find pragmatic value in these patterns regardless".
Its interesting to me, however, to see how this continues to confound some on this list. "What kind of pattern is the MOQ?", for example, frustrates some who can't handle the necessary, and recursive, answer of "intellectual pattern". [Mark] Think of Quality and what it means to you. I don't think you will find any recursion there. [Arlo] Well this is two-fold, in the immediate moment of experience, pre-intellectual, NOW!, no there is no 'recursion', because recursion is the unavoidable co-product of symbolic systems. But, in selecting the best symbolic systems for pointing to the Void, those that embrace, and play with, recursion (such as the MOQ) are far more powerful, and useful, than those that falsely believe they can define away recursion (an inherent trait of SOM). That is, not only will you find recursion Quality intellectual descriptions, it is a hallmark of Quality intellectual patterns (again, such as the MOQ). [Mark] My suggestion to Marsha was to escape from the recursive. Your intent is to strengthen it. Well, Vive le differance! [Arlo] I'd say, perhaps, your intent is to seek the moment of pure experience, and you'd be better off recommending activity that emphasizes pre-intellectual experience (suggesting to Marsha she go do yoga or meditate or 'just sit'). I am suggesting that the moment you move into symbolic description, you are better off accepting the unavoidable recursive nature of these systems than trying to pretend its not there. Lest you end up like Mudd's Norman. Anyway, I will second the notion Vive le differance!, it would be nice if everyone felt this way. D'oh! Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
