Hi Ron, I see this in a different way. For me, Value comes before any static pattern. The creation of any static pattern originates in its value. To say that existence is nothing but Value, implies (to me) that we are creating patterns out of Value. So far as I can tell from MOQ, we do not value things, but instead we operate within Value. We are entities which assimilate and produce. What we produce is projected out. What we are given to produce is Value.
As I see it, Truth is a place within Value. We operate from a position of Truth in order to create. We cannot create Truth since that comes first. As I walk, I operate from the Truth that by moving my legs I can get somewhere. I do not start with the the idea of getting somewhere and then make a truth out of my walking. We could say that Truth is a state of being. It brings certainty and direction. The certainty and direction does not create Truth. Another analogy would be the manner in which we use our eyes to see things. In this case the eyes are an analogy for Truth. When we look at things, we are not creating our eyes. We cannot conjecture whether we have eyes or not (although anything is possible I suppose). We can conjecture that perhaps our eyes could be better and so we buy a pair of glasses. With these glasses what we see becomes clearer. Therefore the place from which we operate (truth) becomes better. However, either way, we can still see. This probably make no sense to anybody but me, but I tried. Perhaps you are saying the same thing, when you say that truth is a result of harmony. However, I would twist this slightly and say that harmony is a result of Truth. We could indeed say that truth is a "feeling", but I would go even farther and say that "feeling" is a result of the manner in which we operate. We believe what we see. Or, if not, we believe that it is appropriate to question what we see. Or, we can also not believe what we see. This are all viewpoints which stem from the starting point of truth. Even the idea that everything is fraudulent is coming from the starting point of truth, in that it is true that everything is fraudulent. This reminds me of the classic paradox where "Everything I tell you is a lie". If one contemplates this phrase and goes around in as many circles as it takes to get out of the circle, one will find that the logic of such a statement is not important, and dwelling on it misses the message completely. In this case, one's personal viewpoint does not arrise from what somebody tells us (be it a lie about lying) but rather it arrises from that window of truth we are looking through to judge such a statement. Cheers, Mark On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 11:15 AM, X Acto <[email protected]> wrote: > I think what the question attempts to flush out > is how value extends to DQ and SQ. I would say it > would be missing the mark to attribute value exclusivly > to static patterns. As has been posed as part of the question. > If we stop to consider that what is valued is what holds meaning > and what holds the most meaning or the best meaning are those > values which are held to be "true", then what values are held to be > true are those values that harmonize with the Dynamic "NOW" > of experience. We get that "good" feeling of satisfaction and excellence. > That feeling of unity and direction. Which syncs with the evolution or "act" > that is "Quality" > > .. > Ron > > > > From: Andre Broersen <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 1:33 PM > Subject: [MD] the wall > > Marsha asks us:Greetings, > > How does this work for those of you who would like to make static > patterns of value synonymous with truth? > > ---To the extent that one's behavior is controlled by truths it is > without choice.--- > > Andre: > Without wanting to go into any detail about the stupidity of the > question the mere posing of it shows the extent to which Marsha's > train has been derailed off the quality track. > Here is displayed very clearly and obviously the contempt (and > complete ignorance of importance) with which Marsha treats sq patterns > in the DQ/sq ' constellation' . > > I did not realize the extent of Marsha's confusion, distortion, > nihilism and anti-intellectualism displayed but this particular one > has put it all together. > > She doesn't have the faintest about Pirsig's MoQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
