Hi Marsha, Yes, we create value in its human interpretation. We must create this from something. This something is Value. We create patterns through our interaction with existence, but we do not create these patterns from Patterns, we create them from Quality. Patterning is a response in search of Meaning.
That patterns are "hypothetical" implies that one is in search of proving them, for that is the definition of a hypothesis. That something is "not necessarily true, implies that it could be true. Otherwise you woul say "is never true". Since we create patterns, there is no means of proving them except to exist as if they are real. This is the Truth that David and dmb are trying to explain. Questioning is appropriate, but the truth therein is the ability to question. Both of Pirsig's books are inquiries. They embody the art of questioning which is held as a true endeavor. Questioning the ability to question, as your logic leads to, is paradoxical and therefore does not lead to a logical conclusion concerning personal truth. If we question whether the patterns we create are real, we create a sense of uncertainty in meaning. Without meaning, we end up with nihilism. We have to start somewhere, and I am not sure what you are starting with. What do you consider to be Real or True? If I understand this I can understand why you promote a circular paradox. Are Patterns real or True to you? If not, then what is? Is Quality a pattern for you? Cheers, Mark On Sep 3, 2012, at 1:38 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > David, > > "Don’t keep searching for truth. Just let go of your opinions." > (Seng Ts'an) > > Here they come; there they go... > > --- > > You would construct me from words and call it "true"? David, do not mistake > me for words. You would construct me as a caring person or non-caring > person based on my agreement with your particular opinion? No, no, no... > It is better to consider knowledge as patterns, and to consider patterns as > hypothetical. It is better to _consciously_ acknowledge that our > interpretations, opinions, valuations, practices and traditions are possibly > incorrect, incomplete and subject to change. Value is an experience. It is > not a judgment about an experience. It is not a description of experience. > The value itself is an experience. One can hold a pattern to be very high > value and reliable, but still hold it as a hypothetical (supposed but not > _necessarily_ real or true). And I don't think it would be > anti-philosophical to do so. > > > Marsha > > > > On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:39 AM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Marsha, >> >> As indicated, your lack of care or value for truth is showing in a >> lack of change to your own perspective. If you are not interested in >> the best intellectual patterns then you are not interested in becoming >> a better person. >> >> -David >> >>> Hi David, >>> >>> Don't worry I saw no insult. But please understand that the fundamental >>> principle of the MoQ is the idea that the world is nothing but value. I am >>> a flow of ever-changing, conditionally co-dependent and impermanent static >>> patterns of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual value in the >>> infinite field of Dynamic Quality; I am nothing but value. >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> On Aug 31, 2012, at 9:25 PM, David Harding <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Marsha, >>>> >>>> The fact that you think this is an insult points to how you see >>>> everything from a SOM perspective. When you see things from an MOQ >>>> perspective, with quality at the centre, SOM paradoxes such as >>>> 'circular truth' disappear. It is undefined Quality first, then ideas >>>> and truths and everything else. If something is good then it is real. >>>> If an idea is really good then it is true. Your disinterest in 'truth' >>>> shows that you are not interested in discussing high quality >>>> intellectual patterns. This would be indicated in the quality of many >>>> if your posts.. Please start valuing truth and the quality of your >>>> posts will increase as well.. >>>> >>>> -David >>> > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
