I think Dan said:
...What bothers me about that is someone just coming to the group would tend to
believe that is the caliber of dialogue here, and frankly I am ashamed to be
part of it.
dmb says:
Yes, and I think that is a very serious problem. Suppose there is some bright
budding philosophy student that discovers Pirsig's work and then shows up here.
There could be hundreds of such people. Who knows? In the last year or so I've
seen what a proper discussion group looks like and, sadly, this place looks
nothing like a functioning group. By comparison to what goes on elsewhere, this
place has become a joke. It's a rotten, shameful thing and Pirsig certainly
deserves better.
David Harding said (i think):
At the moment they [newbies] can be pointed in very wrong directions… This is
the main reason why I'd argued for Mark and Marsha's removal a while back… I'm
sure this is why dmb argues with Marsha constantly. But how do we handle the
Marks and Marsha's and Joe's? Kick them off? ... Is it really that important
for newbies to get only the best? This is how things are. Is shielding them
from crazy ideas really all that much of a good thing? It's ideal yes, but at
the same time - dealing with crazy ideas helps to keep things in perspective.
And with people like dmb constantly showing an alternative to whatever Marsha
says I think that helps to keep things in perspective as well.
dmb says:
Dealing with crazy ideas? I think that's too generous, actually. Excepted for
the quoted words of others, there is nothing from Marsha or Mark that could
rightly be called an "idea", crazy or otherwise. My attempts to correct
Marsha's assertions, as you may have noticed, usually consist in explaining how
and why one should not equate opposed terms or oppose equal terms. It's not
really even a philosophical dispute or a battle of ideas because these
corrections barely rise above the level of a grammar lesson! Newbies don't need
the best but neither should they wade into a sea of gross incompetence. I
guarantee that this bunch will scare off any discerning person. Anyone who can
think their way out of a paper bag will read a few posts full of their
incoherent drivel and simply go elsewhere.
David H said to Dan (or vice versa):
I mean just look at what happened when dmb attempted linking of our discussion
to negative and positive liberty - we both saw straight through that… He had no
response really and that was the end of it.
dmb says:
Is that what happened? Hmmm. It was not intended as a link to your discussion.
It's just that your discussion prompted me to make a point. From my
perspective, you never did get that point and things quickly turned ugly. So I
let it go. But I remain convinced that the point is valid.
Dan said (i think):
To me, philosophy isn't hard. It is the philosphology that's hard, the study of
philosophy. I don't get it. I've tried to read James and Hegel and Kant and I
find it is impossibly dry. I wonder when they were writing those words of
theirs if they ever thought anyone would ever read them. I guess that's why I
am drawn to Robert Pirsig's works...
dmb says:
I was slightly traumatized when they made us read Hegel but I think that
exposure to philosophical ideas will almost certainly improve anyone's
appreciation and understanding of Pirsig's work. There are much easier ways to
learn about philosophical ideas than slogging through German idealism in the
original. You don't even have to read anything. There are free courses from top
Universities at the iTunes store, especially "iTunes University", and there are
plenty of free philosophy podcasts at the iTunes store too. Youtube probably
has a million philosophy-related videos to watch for free. A lot of it is
downright entertaining so that it doesn't feel like work at all. There are
gazillions of good lectures by people who know what they're talking about. Why
wouldn't you want to hear that? What kind of music lover listens to only one
band?
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org/md/archives.html
