Seasons Greetings, This topic paused, but not forgotten.
Marsha On Dec 11, 2012, at 3:18 AM, MarshaV wrote: > > "Writing establishes what has been called 'context-free' language or > 'autonomous discourse', discourse which cannot be directly questioned or > contested as oral speech can be because written discourse has been detached > from its author. > > "Oral cultures know a kind of autonomous discourse in fixed ritual > formulas, as well as in vatic sayings or prophesies, for which the utterer > himself or herself is considered only the channel, not the source. The > Delphic oracle was not responsible for they were held to be the voice of the > god. Writing, and even more print, has some of this vatic quality. Like the > oracle or the prophet, the book relays an utterance from a source, the one > who really 'said' or wrote the book. The author cannot might be challenged > if only he or she could be reached, but the author cannot be reached in any > book. There is no way directly to refute a text. After absolutely total and > devastating refutation, it says exactly the same thing as before. This is > one reason why 'the book says' is popularly tantamount to 'it is true'. It > is also one reason why books have been burnt. A text stating what the whole > world knows is false will state falsehood forever, so long as the text > exists. Texts are inherently contumacious." > > Marsha: > The author presents Plato's view: > > PLATO, WRITING AND COMPUTERS > > "Most persons are surprised, and many distressed, to learn that > essentially the same objections commonly urged today against computers were > urged by Plato in _Phædrus_ and in the _Seventh Letter_ against writing. > Writing, Plato has Socrates say in the _Phædrus_, is inhuman, pretending to > establish outside the mind what in reality can be only in the mind. It is a > thing, a manufactured product. The same of course is said of computers. > Secondly, Plato's Socrates urges, writing destroys memory. Those who use > writing will become forgetful, relying on an external resource for what they > lack in internal resources. Writing weakens the mind. Thirdly, a written > text is basically unresponsive ... Fourthly, ..." > > "One weakness in Plato's position was that, to make his objections > effective, he put them into writing, ..." > > "In fact, as Havelock has beautifully shown, Plato's entire epistemology > was unwittingly a programmed rejection of the old oral, mobile, warm, > personally interactive lifeworld of oral culture..." > > (Ong, Walter J., 'Orality and Literacy', pp. 77-78) > > Marsha: > The ideas presented in this book add new light to the split between the > social and intellectual levels. > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
