Dave Buchanan stated April 12th 2013:
Marsha asked dmb:
Perhaps static patterns of value are "relatively" static like James's pure
experience is "relatively" pure?
Ant McWatt replied:
Perhaps it would be better to think of static patterns (i.e. patterned quality)
as relating to anything that can described with words while Dynamic Quality
(i.e. Unpatterned Quality) relates to what is known (such as love and beauty)
but beyond words (so - to borrow one of Northrop's suggestions - DQ is best
represented by fine Art - the less representational, the better - Northrop was
especially thinking of the large use of white space in traditional Japanese Art
of mountain scenery). So, if you want to have a better grasp of DQ, visit
your local (Fine) Art gallery!
dmb says:
Yes, I think it works well to substitute patterned and unpatterned - especially
in this case. Watch what happens to Marsha's sentence when this substitution is
made:
"Perhaps patterns of value are "relatively" patterned like James's unpatterned
experience is "relatively" unpatterned?"
Ant McWatt comments:
Exactly. That's why I suugested to David Morey that he makes the same
substitution. It just keeps things a little clearer and hopefully reduces the
time on this Board dealing with MOQ 101. Much, if not all, of these basic
issues are dealt with in the primary and secondary literature and it's
certainly not the best use of OUR time to have to keep returning to them.
Dave Buchanan continued:
I think the question is so ill-conceived that it's impossible to answer. But it
might be helpful to explain what James meant by saying that pure experience is
never literally pure (except in rare cases) and I think Pirsig's train analogy
illustrates the idea pretty well.
Ant McWatt comments:
Is there such thing as "pure experience"?
That reminds me of Matt "politics is scary" Kundert who used to go round and
round in circles with you about about this subject at MOQ Discuss, seven or
eight years ago. It kind of got boring after a few posts but I think Matt was
correct in bringing this issue up.
Anyway, I have to say the highest quality idea is that, yes, pure experience,
must exist as very few people have any memories before the age of one. The
reason is, I guess, is that intellectual static latching just isn't happening
in the first few months of life; it's all biological and social latching going
on. So Dave when you later quote Pirsig (from LILA) quoting James:
"Only new-born babes, or men in semi-coma from sleep, drugs, illnesses,
or blows, may be assumed to have an experience pure in the literal sense
of a that which is not yet any definite what...."
We can see that James was well ahead of the game!
Best wishes,
Ant
.
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