Sorry, Ant, it was a rhetorical question, but it's nice to hear your opinion. - Marsha
On Apr 13, 2013, at 6:56 PM, Ant McWatt <[email protected]> wrote: > Dave Buchanan stated April 12th 2013: > > Marsha asked dmb: > > Perhaps static patterns of value are "relatively" static like James's pure > experience is "relatively" pure? > > > Ant McWatt replied: > > Perhaps it would be better to think of static patterns (i.e. patterned > quality) as relating to anything that can described with words while Dynamic > Quality (i.e. Unpatterned Quality) relates to what is known (such as love and > beauty) but beyond words (so - to borrow one of Northrop's suggestions - DQ > is best represented by fine Art - the less representational, the better - > Northrop was especially thinking of the large use of white space in > traditional Japanese Art of mountain scenery). So, if you want to have a > better grasp of DQ, visit your local (Fine) Art gallery! > > dmb says: > Yes, I think it works well to substitute patterned and unpatterned - > especially in this case. Watch what happens to Marsha's sentence when this > substitution is made: > > "Perhaps patterns of value are "relatively" patterned like James's > unpatterned experience is "relatively" unpatterned?" > > Ant McWatt comments: > > Exactly. That's why I suugested to David Morey that he makes the same > substitution. It just keeps things a little clearer and hopefully reduces > the time on this Board dealing with MOQ 101. Much, if not all, of these > basic issues are dealt with in the primary and secondary literature and it's > certainly not the best use of OUR time to have to keep returning to them. > > > Dave Buchanan continued: > > I think the question is so ill-conceived that it's impossible to answer. But > it might be helpful to explain what James meant by saying that pure > experience is never literally pure (except in rare cases) and I think > Pirsig's train analogy illustrates the idea pretty well. > > > Ant McWatt comments: > > Is there such thing as "pure experience"? > > That reminds me of Matt "politics is scary" Kundert who used to go round and > round in circles with you about about this subject at MOQ Discuss, seven or > eight years ago. It kind of got boring after a few posts but I think Matt > was correct in bringing this issue up. > > Anyway, I have to say the highest quality idea is that, yes, pure experience, > must exist as very few people have any memories before the age of one. The > reason is, I guess, is that intellectual static latching just isn't happening > in the first few months of life; it's all biological and social latching > going on. So Dave when you later quote Pirsig (from LILA) quoting James: > > "Only new-born babes, or men in semi-coma from sleep, drugs, illnesses, > or blows, may be assumed to have an experience pure in the literal sense > of a that which is not yet any definite what...." > > We can see that James was well ahead of the game! > > Best wishes, > > Ant > > > . > ://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
