John said to Dan:
...And yet, there is a way of thinking about problems in two different ways -
you can rely upon social authority, or you can think for yourself about what
seems right to you. But if that's the dividing line, then why does dmb
constantly harp on me for not following his authority? It's a conundrum you
see.
dmb says:
If I'm harping on anything, John, it is your disregard for reason and evidence.
That's what is supposed to have authority on the intellectual level. You're
supposed to see the reason and evidence with your own eyes and then be
compelled by it. That's why I complain when you make stuff up (like my supposed
social authority) rather than responding to the reasons actually given. That's
why I complain when you dismiss textual evidence as Pirsig's opinion.
Basically, you don't understand the difference between arguments from authority
and authoritative arguments, between political power and expertise, etc.. This
is just one more way that you end up being so consistently anti-intellectual,
one more way you try to justify the belief that your opinion is just as good as
the guys who actually know what they're talking about.
One certainly doesn't have to rely on social rank to believe that you are not
on a par with Pirsig. You don't have to believe him or accept his views but if
you need to understand it before you can even begin to add anything worthwhile.
But, sadly, your favorite topic is you and your previous ideas, while the MOQ
is quite secondary.
By your own admission, the basic structure of the MOQ still eludes you. The
levels, the moral codes, the difference between the problem and the solution,
the nature of SOM and its relation to intellect and even the distinction
between static and Dynamic. You have to understand these basic nuts and bolts
if you ever hope to gain a clear and coherent picture of the thing we're
talking about.
You also need to learn the difference between criticism and mere insult. This
is not mere insult. I'm trying over and over again to tell you what the
problems are with your assertions and with your style of discussion. It really
doesn't work. My feeling about you as a person are irrelevant. If you say two
plus two is five, I will disagree because it's wrong and not because you're an
asshole or because I worship numbers. That matters not one bit.
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