In other words...
"At the treaty of Lancaster, in Pennsylvania, 1744, between the Government of
Virginia and the Six Nations, the commissioners from Virginia acquainted the
Indians by a speech, that there was at Williamsburg a college with fund for
educating Indian youth; and that if the chiefs of the Six Nations would send
down half a dozen of their sons to that college, the government would take care
that they be well provided for, and instructed in all the learning of the white
people."
The Indians' spokesman replied:
"We know that you highly esteem the kind of learning taught in those colleges,
and that the maintenance of our young men, while with you, would be very
expensive to you. We are convinced, therefore, that you mean to do us good by
your proposal and we thank you heartily."
"But you, who are wise, must know that different nations have different
conceptions of things; and you will not therefore take it amiss, if our ideas
of this kind of education happen not to be the same with yours. We have had
some experience of it; several of our young people were formerly brought up at
the colleges of the northern provinces; they were instructed in all your
sciences; but, when they came back to us, they were bad runners, ignorant of
every means of living in the woods, unable to bear either cold or hunger, knew
neither how to build a cabin, take a deer, nor kill an enemy, spoke our
language imperfectly, were therefore neither fit for hunters, warriors, nor
counsellors; they were totally good for nothing." [Ant note: does that remind
you of anyone who posts here "occasionally"??? Sorry no signed ZMM copies for
anyone who provides the first correct answer...]
"We are however not the less obligated by your kind offer, though we decline
accepting it, and to show our grateful sense of it, if the gentlemen of
Virginia will send us a dozen of their sons, we will take care of their
education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." [Ant note: Too
bloody right as well. These Indians needed a 'white man's education' as much
as a fish needs a bike!"]
(Benjamin Franklin: Remarks Concerning the Savages of North America)
----------------------------------------
Ant had said earlier in the morning (Thurs Jun 26 07:18:11 GMT 2014):
Friends, Romans, Countrymen!
I would strongly advise anyone who is thinking of starting an MOQ
reconstruction model for education that they read Everett W. Reimer's classic
text "School is Dead; An Essay on Alternatives in Education" BEFORE Dewey and
Freire because Reimer puts these two great educationalists in CONTEXT. It can
be downloaded for free from:
www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/dead.pdf
Reimer's text took me only about four hours to read but is stacked full of new
progressive ideas (unsurprizingly it was written in the late 1960s!) that will
make for a refreshing read for anyone disillusioned with the direction of
modern education (especially in North America and Western Europe) over the last
150 years and especially the last forty.
In fact, Reimer's "School is Dead" book will be forming the basis of the new
MOQ College of Arts which will be enrolling its first students towards the end
of this year (in Liverpool). Paulo Freire is mentioned throughout Reimer's book
so his ideas about education (though Dewey and, of course, Pirsig's too) will
be the "guiding lynchpins" about how this new university will operate.
Reimer initially thought in the 1950s - with his friend & colleague Ivan Illich
- that everyone in the world should go to school but after spending time - on
the ground so to speak - in Latin America, eventually realised the stupidity of
such a project in so many ways. For a start, there simply is not enough
resources in the world to give every child a SCHOOL education from 5 to 18 and
most GENUINE, USEFUL education is actually done at home and at work i.e. in
practice.
Schools and universities also tend to support the status quo (see how they
responded in Nazi Germany compared to the more independent Churches) and - just
like right-wingers who ignorantly exploit the poor and marginalised - don't do
many children much good in the long run. Why do you think it's a criminal
offence in many countries - such as England - for NOT sending your child/ren to
school?
Think about it!!!
Ant
------------------------------
"I used to get mad at my school
The teachers who taught me weren't cool
You're holding me down, turning me round
Filling me up with your rules (...foolish rules)"
"[But] I've got to admit it's getting better
A little better all the time (It can't get much worse...)
You gave me the word, I finally heard
I'm doing the best that I can."
(Lennon-McCartney, Northern Songs, 1967)
On Jun 23, 2014, at 1:01 AM, GMT ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR wrote:
I've mentioned Freire several times over the years. The perennial and, now,
generational "educational crisis" in America, I believe, results from a
societal inability to answer the fundamental question "why educate?" We talk
about testing and assessment and standards but few can articulate a 'purpose'
behind the structure, and those that can (and do) are those that have come to
see education as a servant to capitalism; the goal of education is to meet
labor demands.
Ron Kulp responded June 24th:
I had thought so, the more I develop a clearer understanding of Pragmatism and
RMP's MOQ, the more it becomes evident that the primary thrust and direction of
that solution space lies in critical pedagogy.
I am currently still in the discovery stage and it's pleasing to see that this
is a subject that has some history here. To me, this is what a MOQ
reconstruction Model looks like.
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org/md/archives.html
