John said to dmb:
...Here's a big problem, I have. Where's art? Where does art fit in? You can
say "intellect" but when you make intellect the arbiter of all reality, it
tends to decide for itself what is art and what is not and that is a very bad
idea. I don't misunderstand Pirsig on this subject, you dolt. I argue with
him.
Arlo said:
...this is a horribly confused thing to say for someone who claims to "I don't
misunderstand Pirsig". "Where is art?" Besides in the title of his first book?
In Chapter 8 (ZMM), Pirsig likens "the art of motorcycle maintenance" to "the
art of rationality". Here even a casual reader should be able to discern the
role of "art", something Pirsig makes explicit later on. "Art is high-quality
endeavor. That is all that really needs to be said. Or, if something more
high-sounding is demanded: Art is the Godhead as revealed in the works of man."
dmb says:
Yep, John claims to get Pirsig and yet the central metaphor, the central idea
and the meaning of the title is completely lost on him. That's what my opening
lines were all about back in February (in a post and thread titled "Pirsig's
Central Metaphor"). Pirsig "put the central metaphor of his first book right
there on the cover," I had said, and "by the time you finish reading the title
of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance you have already exposed to a
version of the book's central idea. The assertion that motorcycle maintenance
can be an art form is a metaphor for any human practice..." And yes, just as
you said, motorcycle maintenance serves as a metaphor for rationality itself.
"A motorcycle functions entirely in accordance with the laws of reason," Pirsig
says, "and a study of the art of motorcycle maintenance is really a miniature
study of the art of rationality itself." (ZAMM 98)
“You want to know how to paint a perfect painting? It’s easy. Make yourself
perfect and then just paint naturally. That’s the way all the experts do it.
The making of a painting or the fixing of a motorcycle isn’t separate from the
rest of your existence. If you’re a sloppy thinker the six days of the week you
aren’t working on your machine, what trap avoidances, what gimmicks, can make
you all of a sudden sharp on the seventh? It all goes together.But if you’re a
sloppy thinker six days a week and you really try to be sharp on the seventh,
then maybe the next six days aren’t going to be quite as sloppy as the
preceding six. What I’m trying to come up with on these gumption traps I guess,
is shortcuts to living right.The real cycle you’re working on is a cycle called
yourself. The machine that appears to be "out there" and the person that
appears to be "in here" are not two separate things. They grow toward Quality
or fall away from Quality together.” (ZAMM 325)
Arlo said to dmb (about John):
My money is on this confusion persisting.
dmb says:
Yep. His position has already been totally defeated but he just continues
obliviously repeating the same nonsense over and over again. You can lead a
horse to water but this one thinks death by dehydration is a good thing,
apparently.
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