> On Mar 7, 2015, at 7:11 PM, david <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ron said: > > Marcus was considered a stoic philosopher and stoicism has Platonic roots, I > believe. The passions are rejected. Pirsig, on the other hand, seems to place > more importance on emotion and feeling as a guiding principle toward > intellect. There are ideas that are similar but they come from different > places in context. It will be interesting to see what others think. Thanks > for the topic! > > > dmb says: > > Yes, that is one important difference. > > But it also shows that the MOQ's moral hierarchy is based in part on some > very old and very basic ideas. Pleasures of the flesh (biological good) and > the love of wealth and honor (social good) have both been treated as lower > than the pleasure of the mind (intellectual good) since the birth of > philosophy. What Pirsig does is show how they are all derived from the same > source, which makes the whole picture a lot more coherent. > > > Ron replies: Speaking of this Dave, I was kicking Around the notion that the Sophists Were promoting social good. Wondering what you may make of That in terms of conflict with Socrates Intellectual good. Ant and I were recently discussing The encapsulation of the Good off list And coincidentally I found it in Philebus where the discussion revolves around pleasure and reason.I found it in Philebus specifically 65a-e. You have to read the entire thing to Get the gist of how it involves the forms. However, one can argue that Socrates puts forth a trinity of Forms (beauty, proportion, and truth ) as A UNITYof the Good. Which he stresses it is to be taken a one. Measure and Proportion manifest themselves in all Areas as beauty and virtue" He then holds truth as the arbiter Between reason and pleasure asks Which is more akin to truth. Next, measure is the arbiter ,then Beauty. Pleasure loses in each comparison. Pleasure posses the limitless a property of the ever changing flux where reason posses The property of form,the limited. It is this rhetorical argument, purposely Left open, that convinced The reader that not only truth measure and proportion were the embodiment of the good, but that They were fixed and eternal.
Scholars agree that this was one of Plato's last works. Timeaus is where I can put my finger on using that encapsulation as a vehicle for the demiurge. As far as I know, this was one of the few texts available to early Christian thinkers. Just some thoughts Thnx Dave . >> >>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 11:30 AM, "ngriffis" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> I came across this thought #55 in Book 7 in "Meditations" by Marcus Aurelius >>> (Roman Emperor and Philosopher, 121 to 180 AD): >>> >>> >>> >>> "Do not look around at the directing minds of other people, but keep >>> straight ahead to where nature is leading you - both universal nature, in >>> what happens to you, and your own nature, in what you must do yourself. >>> Every creature must do what follows from its' own constitution. The rest of >>> creation is constituted to serve rational beings (just as in everything else >>> the lower exists for the higher), but rational beings are here to serve each >>> other. So the main principle in man's constitution is the social. The second >>> is resistance to the promptings of the flesh. It is the specific property of >>> rational and intelligent activity to isolate itself and never be influenced >>> by the activity of the senses or impulses: both these are of the animal >>> order, and it is the aim of the intelligent activity to be sovereign over >>> them and never yield them the mastery - and rightly so, as it is the very >>> nature of intelligence to put all these things to its' own use. The third >>> element in a rational constitution is a judgment unhurried and undeceived. >>> So let your directing mind hold fast to these principles and follow the >>> straight road ahead: then it has what belongs to it." >>> >>> >>> >>> I think this quote touches on some of what Mr. Pirsig built his >>> philosophy upon, perhaps similar ideas from different sources. It gives us >>> an idea of the foundations that brought us to MOQ. I am always delighted >>> when historic knowledge dovetails into present-day leading-edge knowledge. I >>> hope the subscribers to MOQ find this of interest. > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
