Glove, Glove writes to Magnus: Now, you have proposed that any two patterns of value can be a Quality Event should they meet. I would ask, how can Magnus "know" this without either observing it or being communicated about said event in an unambiguous fashion? How can Glove know it? Or Ken, or anyone? You are saying we wouldnt "know", yet the only way we experience is to know. Clark writes: Glove, we know this because we accept Pirsig's interpretation of reality. Remember when he talked about the chair being nothing but a collection of Dharmas. (the chair was nothing but value). Pirsig further tells us that there is an inorganic level in the MoQ. Applying the above reasoning the whole inorganic universe is nothing but a collection of Dharmas. Our intellect tells us (or somebodys intellect) that the inorganic universe evolved before the other three levels, theefore myriads of Quality Events occurred before there was life in the universe. You seem to be saying that we cannot know that anything exists before us, as individuals, because we were not present to observe each Quality Event in an unambiguous fashion. Glove writes: You say it is your opinion I am puzzled because I consider all observations human observations...that is not quite right. I consider all observations as MY observations. Any other observing entity must communicate their observations with me unambiguously for me to rely on them. This, btw, is the essence of complementarity. Notice I am not saying nothing else observes, be they human, plant, mineral or animal, it is simply that MY observations are the only reality I have, the only reality any one of us has. Clark writes: Glove, in my opinion studying the natural history of the universe as set forth by scientists and other thinkers before us also constitutes your unambiguous observations and become a part of your reality. If you insist that only Quality Events that directly impinge on you senses constitute reality then you are putting yourself in the same position as the South American tribes that were being talked about recently. They, too, experience Quality Events but these events are greatly limited by the condition of their intellect. The very quality of your posts belies the assertion that the only Quality Events you experience are your immediate sensory inputs. I have to take my wife out to dinner so I have to leave this fascinating discussion. Ken MOQ Homepage - http://www.moq.org Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
