MD MEMES

[RISKYBIZ9]

Hey Dan, this has been fun..... Thanks for bearing with me. DAN: I'm not sure if it is a fundamental inadequacy of language or if I simply have yet to learn the proper way to express myself.... ROG: I was just trying to get down to the essential issues.� Sorry if I was being.....anal....again. DAN: .... but yes, to answer your last question first, we are unaware of the inorganic level in everyday reality just as we are intellectually unaware of biological level processes. Take a hypochondriac, for instance. ROG: I agree that some of biology is under the hood and that we are unaware of it, but not all of it.� Consider a stomach ache.� Consider sex.� Where did this "truism" come from that a pattern of one level is ignorant of processes more than one level away?� Did Bo come up with this? I don't think I agree, but as we know, I could be wrong.� ;^) DAN: Your second question is a great deal more complex and I am unsure if there is a proper answer the way it is worded. Hmmm. Let's see. Perhaps if you change the "or" to "and"... shuffle the "are" over in front of "reality"... drop the ? mark... then you have a statement "the levels are reality and part of the map" which would seem closer to the mark, though still not quite right... ROG: Personally I would say that "the levels are part of the map, but the map is part of reality."� But that's still not quite right either... DAN: As to your first question, perhaps it is better to say patterns of value have evolutionary levels. ROG: OK DAN: This is one reason why I think it is imperative not to look at memes as independent entities. ROG: I would agree that according to the MOQ and modern science there is no such thing as a totally� independent entity. " That which has no value....". I would say that conceptually, memes overlap greatly with social and intellectual patterns of value.� Not exactly though.... DAN: Universe seems to be a ever regenerating process in which copying is prohibited, at least in the context of every day reality. ROG: Dang!� Do not tell anybody else until I can unload my shares of Xerox! DAN: .... Roger, this isn't off the subject at all. Not at all! What is it that keeps us all in place? It is the image we have of who we are plus the image those around us have of us. ROG: OK, but isn't this conversation getting deeper than necessary?� It's like starting a conversatiion on who is the best goalie and answering...."God". DAN: Carlos Castaneda called it the "tonal". There is no separation in the image between self and not self except that which is imagined. The tonal is everything that make us what we are; everything. All of static quality reality. If one wishes to substitute the term meme for tonal I see no problem at all. ROG: OK. So, where are you on the concept of memes?� Do you feel they add any value to this forum? Roger