Re: MD !!!!MEMES!!!

[RISKYBIZ9]

ROG RESPONDS TO TWO OF THE DAVID's WITH PS TO JOVO DAVID E. WRITES: Dear Darwinist Riff Raff: ROG: No, Riff Raff is now the other Dave! (this makes... like 7 Daves). DAVID: What do you mean by calling MOQ "evolutionary" metaphysics? Because if you simply mean that it is a development of a lot of ideas that were around for thousands of years, all well and good.� On the other hand, if you think that the reason it is right (which I think it is) is just that happens to have survived, then I question the point of discussing it with you. ROG: Actually, I am way ahead of you on the last point, but as for your question, let me reference Lila Ch 12.  "These patterns have nothing in common except the historic evolutionary process that created all of them.  But that process is a process of value evolution......" Value evolution is what huge portions of the book are about.  This is just the 1st example I opened to.  It is an evolutionary metaphysics. He even establishes the moral hierarchy upon what he calls an "evolutionary morality" (Ch13). If that, or any casual skimming through the book is not sufficient, then consider this quote that Pirsig sent in correspondence to Anthony Mcwatt:  "If cosmological evolution does not exist then the ordering of the four static levels in the MOQ would cease to be a viable basis for a moral framework." The MOQ involves an evolutionary morality to explain the development of the universe within and between levels.  The study of evolution is an extremely important part of the study of the MOQ. DAVID E. (in a later post): That is precisely why Quality can't be a Meme: it is not what changes in response to it's external enviroment: we are.� Think about it on this dangerous analogy, if you like: Religion can be a Meme, because it's changes are just changes in our behaviour.� But God can't be a Meme and still be God: if he's just what changes then he's just a collection of beleifs, and not the metaphysical object these beleifs are supposed to be about. (one argument against the existence of God).� The same applies to Quality, as it would to Plato's Form of the Good. ROG: I agree that Quality or DQ cannot be a meme.  Nor can God, or reality.   Certainly the concepts referencing each of these can be a meme, but David is right that the map ain't even close to the territory. DAVE PRINCE (another Dave) WRITES: Like Roger says: He's a smarty pants. Oh and the other thing that he says is that:� are 6 and 6 the same 6? I'll give you 6 of my coins that I choose for 6 of your coins that I choose. Any takers? I mean 1 coin = 1 coin. Right? ROG: No, I said 1 =1, not 1 coin = 1 different coin. There is a big difference.Try the test below for an example. 6    6    6   6 One of these 6's is the real six, the others are cut n' pasted copies (seriously).  Can you tell which is the real 6? Would it matter? Would it always matter? Can you imagine any times when it wouldn't? If you can, then you have identified when the copy meets your requirement as a pattern. Rog (aka smarty pants) PS -- JOVO, I am making progress!! ************************** Fisherman to Mystic Wanna-be: "Which way is it to that stream we were at yesterday?" Mystic Wanna-be:  "It is pointless to ask, as we can't enter the same stream twice." Fisherman (shaking his head and walking off on his own) : "Whatever....I just want to fish." *************************