Hi Ian et al I actually think Branson has a point
Seems to me that although trees are evidently effective CO2 traps they don't do it all that fast. Whilst it may be very nice eco warrior rhetoric to say "plant a million trees" we would have to plant trees at a faster rate than we are burning fuels, and given the growth rates involved compared to the rates of combustion (in which I include respiration) it just isn't going to work. If we accept that the tiger economies will continue to expand their industrial programs and that the rest of us just cant galvanise ourselves to really try at all, then we have to come up with a technology based fix, even if its only a contingency. Its no good being personally green and publicising green issues whilst we watch the planet burn around us. Not to say that these endeavours are not worthwhile, but Branson is quite right that we need a serviceable plan B that can be brought to effect more quickly. Looking at it in terms of energetics: You put energy into low energy waste substrates to yield high energy fuels, allow the reac to run the other way and you get lots of waste and lots of energy evolved. Our problem is our overall energy requirement, trying to drive low energy state waste products back into fuels just increases our overall energy needed. My solutions would be to either use GM biological processes to do the redux bit through photosynthesis but in some highly catalysed industrial way, where the system is able for example to operate way outside of the conditions normally required for life (and thus much faster), or massively increase the amount of energy we generate through nuclear, solar, wind and geothermal to the extent that there is a sufficient surplus clean energy generated which we are able to "spend" on carbon absorption factories. This sounds heretical and completely counterintuitive, but we must fix the problem now at the same time that we address its causes. > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ian glendinning > Sent: 13 February 2007 14:04 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] CO2 catcher > > > Hi Mark, (Steve H mentioned) > > As Blake said "A green an pleasant land" > > I have no doubt MoQ provides that consistent view that we are all part > of one co-evolved biosphere (one co-evolved cosmos in fact). > > If you look at almost any "interest group" forum I think you will find > the topics of the day are sustainability, and turning away from > consumerism and "unfair" global trading as the main source of so many > other issues, and education in one form or another as a major issue > underlying all of these. Of course many scientists believe we've > already blown the sustainability option from our terrestrial > perspective, and see the major priority to find alternative habitable > worlds - but that may just be a plea for space-project funding ;-) > > Steve Hannon, pricked our pomposity by suggesting we don't take > ourselves too seriously, but I say we should be asking ourselves what, > other than tending our own garden, making personal choices to "turn > away" from consumerism; what should we be doing specifically with the > MoQ itself. > > Regards > Ian > > On 2/13/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi SA, > > Thanks for that. > > England used to be one large forest with a remarkable biosystem. > > I was thinking we could do with getting back to living in > harmony with that > > rather than plaster over it with towns and cities. > > This brings up another aspect of CO2 catching: Population control. > > The Earth can't sustain human proliferation on the scale we > are imposing. > > A shift toward a value centred view of life rather than a > capitalist one has > > never been more desperate. > > I feel the moq supports this position; the biosphere is so > fundamental to a > > quality Earth it should be one of our greatest imperatives > to live within our > > means. > > > > Love, > > Mark > > > > In a message dated 13/02/2007 02:22:18 GMT Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > [Mark] > > > I hear Richard Branson is offering £10M to anyone > > > who can invent an effective CO2 catcher? > > > Here's mine: Trees! And plenty of 'em. > > > May i have my £10M now please? > > > > Great idea, and we'd have to stop cutting them, > > too. Tree farms would help replenish this raw > > material for humans instead of whole old growth > > forests where many others creatures live. Where just > > invading their home and burning. Human population is > > big. Well, anyways, I don't think having more trees > > is that easy though. I think you realize this though. > > Here's one of the lists with different charts and > > models found at one of the website Poot gave called > > "IPCC Special Report on Carbon dioxide Capture and > > Storage". It is the first group given at the website. > > > > Here's the website: > > http://www.ipcc.ch/present/graphics.htm > > > > thanks. > > > > SA > > > > > > > > > > moq_discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > PLEASE NOTE: THE ABOVE MESSAGE WAS RECEIVED FROM THE INTERNET. > On entering the GSI, this email was scanned for viruses by > the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service > supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with > MessageLabs. > In case of problems, please call your organisational IT Helpdesk. > The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed > service to achieve the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM > Certificate Number 2006/04/0007), the UK Government quality > mark initiative for information security products and > services. For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk This e-mail (and any attachment) is intended only for the attention of the addressee(s). Its unauthorised use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all copies and inform the sender by return e-mail. This e-mail (and any attachment) is intended only for the attention of the addressee(s). Its unauthorised use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all copies and inform the sender by return e-mail. This e-mail (whether you are the sender or the recipient) may be monitored, recorded and retained by the Department For Constitutional Affairs. E-mail monitoring / blocking software may be used, and e-mail content may be read at any time. You have a responsibility to ensure laws are not broken when composing or forwarding e-mails and their contents. This e-mail (and any attachment) is intended only for the attention of the addressee(s). Its unauthorised use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all copies and inform the sender by return e-mail. This e-mail (and any attachment) is intended only for the attention of the addressee(s). Its unauthorised use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all copies and inform the sender by return e-mail. This e-mail (whether you are the sender or the recipient) may be monitored, recorded and retained by the Department For Constitutional Affairs. E-mail monitoring / blocking software may be used, and e-mail content may be read at any time. You have a responsibility to ensure laws are not broken when composing or forwarding e-mails and their contents. The original of this email was scanned for viruses by Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Cable & Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSI this email was certified virus free. The MessageLabs Anti Virus Service is the first managed service to achieve the CSIA Claims Tested Mark (CCTM Certificate Number 2006/04/0007), the UK Government quality mark initiative for information security products and services. For more information about this please visit www.cctmark.gov.uk moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
