[SA]
So, your saying mysticism is faith based?
[x]
Well I feel it's all kinda faith based generally speaking, like you
demonstrated, relative accuracy in knowledge is about as close as you'll
get
To any kind of certainty, that's why I get turned off by absolutism in
this thinking and words like "truth". remember Even using Hegels
Dialectic to arrive at a true is relative to the participants and
factors in the dialectic used to arrive at said truth.
This was my trouble understanding James and my leaning toward Peirce in
comparisons with Pirsig. Peirce challenges the perception
Of the edifice of scientific knowledge as being absolute and copper
bottomed to be added to rather than a body of knowledge
in need of update And refinement until a better understanding is
supplied never claiming it as absolute fact.
-x
P.s. I "fell" into the surveying profession It was one of the best
things that happened to me, using trig and geometry
To accuratly define existing reality then design from that to go out
and project that design onto reality was an eye opening
Experience it fascinated me and still does even when I did move inside
to be a design draftman..but surveying means trampin
Through woods and using math..a great profession.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Heather Perella
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 2:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [MD] the MOQ and its environment
Hey x! So, glad to hear from you!
[x]
> One thing has become
> abundantly clear is "certainty" is relative at best. I would venture
> that those who point out
"mysticism"
> Are "eventualists" that they believe that the universe Will eventully
> be knowable with
certainty(*note
> faith involved) where as us "mystics" are pretty
comfortable with
> the Idea that "certainty " will never be achieved
and choose to
> focus Subjectivly rather than get caught up with objective certainty.
So, your saying mysticism is faith based? That's how spirituality
and/or mysticism (I see no
difference) is understood in Zen, Amerindians, and the MoQ? Aren't we
basically saying, then, that life is mystic? Science can identify
'things' well (to use the contemporary truth finder), but science is
still faith based. Faith can be strong, no doubt. A zen archer shows
how zen is accurate, practical, and living. Science can point out a
proton is accurately, practical, and living. So, science is spiritual?
Spiritual just means faith-based?
[x]
> MOQ "mysticism" here is embracing the unknowable
Yes, the known is static, but static doesn't mean lasting forever.
[x]
> Some liken it to "faith" but no matter how you slice it And no matter
> what you slice it with there is allways A degree of "faith" involved
> with
speculation at any
> level No one here can argue that at the core of
their
> philosophy There is'nt at least one point where it
rests on the
> faith Of the subject.
> I mean we are dealing with the term Quality" here folks. How hard and
> scientific can you get with it.
> We're all "mystics" to some point.
> I think we can see past all the fancy
> Self important psuedosciencePhilsopho-speak.
> That's what gives MOQ it's uniqueness.
I find the living aspect of 'living philosophy'
important in my life now. This includes the saying wisdom is knowledge
in action. The education system currently is nonapplication prone. At
least it was when I went to school. The difficult question for me has
always been what will I be able to do with this education. This is
always the looming question at the end of high school and universities
life. Vocational Technical schools yield skillful people. Yet, many
people go the way of college/university. Yet, sometimes I wonder if
maybe I should just be a plumber. Time alone, people appreciate what
you do, water's necessary, sewage outlets is necessary, and the hands on
experience is allowing a philosophy is live somewhere. That's one
aspect of my work I don't mind. The first hand experience, but the work
is not very physically demanding and I think it would be healthy to be
involved in physical activity often.
Thus, my job creates inactivity, a tension, where I try to make up for
the lose while I'm not working.
[x]
> I heard a Roshi say this once "zen is like soap, first you wash with
> it Then you wash it off"
Yeah, back to the basics where Zen is not some kind of WOW 'out of
this world' event. It's just ordinary plumbing.
SA
P.S. I'd have to go back to school for another degree. This would be
my third time going back to school for something else. First, massage
therapy, second anthropology, and if I could, third might be plumbing.
Just think if society didn't need pipes, I'd dig irrigation ditches. If
no irrigation ditches were needed, I'd still have a job. I'd be getting
water at the creek to bring back to camp. My grandmother and father
always told me to get a practical job, pick up a skill. Massage therapy
was this skill, but it is too physically demanding to meet the $ needs
where I live. Around here, massage therapist usually only last for
about 7 years, unless one opens their own business, hires other
therapists, so one wouldn't have to massage as much alone. I've never
been too business savy to get into the economic end of a business, but
then again, economics is practical and I've been more in my head than
hands on until the last decade of my life. Started with backpacking, I
believe, well, anyways...
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