[Platt laments the DDT ban] After millions died. [Arlo] I don't fault the people for erring on the side of caution. Especially given the (then) recent fallout from the effects/use of Agent Orange. This was part of the history of the DDT ban given in Wikipedia. Had our government NOT authorized and used chemical warfare, and had our own soldiers not come home with serious aftereffects from their exposure, perhaps the public would have been a little less hasty to do an outright ban.
[Platt] Nixon, Rockefeller and the like were liberals in disguise. One must distinguish between conservatives (the less government, the better) and the Republican Party. [Arlo] Conservatives are as much hypocrites as liberals when it comes to "what they say" and "what they do". You say you want "less government", but seem to have no problem whatsoever enacting all kinds of laws that ban behavior, from motorcycle pipes to women-in-veils. I continue to find it amusing that you are appalled by the idea of "government" passing restrictions on where a company can dump its sludge and waste, but are the first person in the room to shout for laws telling other people what they can and can't wear. In other words, you love government when it enforces YOUR values, and as such government has only grown under all so-called "conservative" Presidencies, just like it grows under so-called "liberal" presidencies. [Platt] A complete reading of the Wikipedia article shows there is still debate among scientists as to DDT effects on humans and the environment, much like the current debate about global warming. [Arlo] Yes, and I think the consensus now seems to be moderate and controlled use, while keeping a watchful eye on effects. A good compromise, again, as I've said. By the way, what got us into Vietnam was quite complex, but support of the corrupt Diem, and the idiotic posturing of both the US and USSR, led us into that nightmare. Wikipedia also says this, "The cornerstone of U.S. policy was the Domino Theory. This widely accepted idea argued that if South Vietnam were to fall to communist forces, then all of South East Asia would follow. Popularized by the Eisenhower administration, some argued that if South Vietnam fell, the next stop for communism would be Hawaii and the west coast of the United States." Interestingly, this from "The Power of Nightmare". "But a world without fear was not what the neoconservatives needed to pursue their project. They now set out to destroy Henry Kissinger’s vision. What gave them their opportunity was the growing collapse of American political power, both abroad and at home. The defeat in Vietnam, and the resignation of President Nixon over Watergate, led to a crisis of confidence in America’s political class. And the neoconservatives seized their moment. They allied themselves with two right-wingers in the new administration of Gerald Ford. One was Donald Rumsfeld, the new Secretary of Defense. The other was Dick Cheney, the President’s Chief of Staff. Rumsfeld began to make speeches alleging that the Soviets were ignoring Kissinger’s treaties and secretly building up their weapons, with the intention of attacking America. ... The CIA, and other agencies who watched the Soviet Union continuously for any sign of threat, said that this [Rumsfeld's claim that the USSR was amassing weapons with the intent to strike the US] was a complete fiction. There was no truth to Rumsfeld’s allegations. But Rumsfeld used his position to persuade President Ford to set up an independent inquiry. He said it would prove that there was a hidden threat to America. And the inquiry would be run by a group of neoconservatives, one of whom was Paul Wolfowitz. The aim was to change the way America saw the Soviet Union." Anyway, the Wikipedia article actually presents a very thorough, yet concise, history of the lead in to war, the war and the aftermath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_war). For anyone interested in the complex political games that trickle down to the people as sly one-liners and slogans, this is a good place to start. moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
