Case said to dmb:
I re-read "Kosmic Konsciousness"... During the course of the book he shows
every evidence of relishing becoming the catch-all justification for every
bit of New Age drivel imaginable. Shamanism, reincarnation, magic talismans
it's all there. He does seem to draw a shaky line at past life regression
but does not rule out jumping over it. ..It is no mystery why Wilber finds
himself in the New Age section of your local book store.
dmb says:
That's doesn't sound like the Wilber I know. In fact, in the stuff I've read
he engages a whole range of "new age" groups and is extremely critical of
them. He sees them as anti-intellectual reactionaries most of whom mistake
the basic for the profound. Its what he calls the pre/trans fallacy, which
is to say they confuse regression with transcendence. However, there are
some interesting things to be gleaned from the so-called occult. Sometimes
the contrary, marginalized view has something to say even if only some of it
is partially true. I guess the idea is to mine for gems and then get out.
But basically, he thinks its drivel too. If new agers are buying his books,
they must have found a way to exclude themselves from his criticisms. Or
maybe masochism is common among them?
Case said:
I am now working on Sex, Ecology and Spirituality. I have to tell you it is
much better. I am still in the first third or so of the book and I will
admit that much of his discussion of hierarchy, complexity even biology is
very lucid. His use of depth and span to ranking holons is very good. In the
early stages of SES I would have to say that his construction of levels is
more coherent than Pirsig's. His stated aim is to reconcile scientific and
religious thinking and he definitely shares that with Pirsig.
dmb says:
Glad to hear it. I thought you might like the way he takes so much specific
science on board, figured you'd appreciate that insofar as that makes him
look a lot less new agey and a lot more rational. SES is a good one because
it give you the whole picture with plenty of detail. I use it like a
reference book. Seems like he's got something to say about every ism that
ever wasm. Yesterday I read just one of his footnotes for a nice overview of
hermenutics in the 20th century (For school) and found it extremely helpful.
Case said:
I can see why you like the guy. He does not seem to share your distain for
theism but maybe he gets around to that. ...
dmb says:
Hmmm. Maybe he's a little more comfortable with theological language than I
am, but I basically agree with him on matters "spiritual". I think he's got
plenty of critical things to say about theism, especially the common
varieties. I suppose we all agree (You, me, Pirsig, Wilber and lots of
others around here) that its a mistake to throw the baby out with the
bathwater. The scientific objectivity that Pirsig complains about is the
same as Wilber's disenchanted flatland. They're both trying to overcome the
soulless materialism of SOM and neither one offers theism as their
alternative. Like Pirsig's anti-theistic stance, Wilber would condemn that
as a regressive move. I've quoted them both many times on that very point.
Case said:
...I suspect that you are otherwise occupied with school these days and I
wish you well with whatever you are doing.
dmb says:
yes, it keeps me busy and thanks.
Case said:
How would you compare Wilber and Pirsig? They seem to share a lot in common
and if anything Wilber's exposition is much longer and in some respects
clearer.
dmb says:
They have such different methods and styles that its astonishing that there
are any similarities at all, but I think they paint the same picture; an
evolutionary, dynamic reality with a hierarchy of forms left in the wake of
that ongoing creation. They both have a East meets West mysticism going too.
Yes, Wilber has a lot more detail and many more books, but this sheer volume
is a least partly due to his method. He's a synthesizer. He basically
assembles the work of others into one coherent picture. His contribution
really comes from his ability to take so many seemingly contradictory things
and fit them together. Pirsig does approximately the opposite. His quest
began with a single question and the answer gave birth to something
original, a kind of novel about motorcycles. Later, in Lila, it was made
into a concrete metaphysical system, but look at where this sequel is coming
from. And yet I feel that I can put them side by side and they only
illuminate each other. Wilber's detail helps me see where the MOQ fits in
relation to other philosophies and Pirsig is like the Hemmingway of
metaphysicians.
Case asked:
What works do you consider to be the "essential" Wilber? Are the ones I have
mentioned on your list?
dmb says:
I've only read a few. A Brief History of Everything is like the Cliff's
Notes on SES. And The Marriage of Sense and Soul is most direct with respect
to the integration of science and religion.
Thanks. Later...
dmb
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