I keep trying to sum this thing up over the past few days but I can't stop myself from ending up just restating the MOQ.
Problem is that as I read through it each time I see it more laden with resonances, but these are with my particular reading of the MOQ. If I describe in detail "my reading of topos theory" its gona end up looking a lot like "my reading of MOQ" but thats not to say that its anything like yours. Also those of you dont actually ascribe to value based metaphysics in the 1st place will have no basis on which to add comment. Theres no point me speaking on bahalf of the paper as I'm simply not qulified to do so, and Ron - brave man for trying. Ham you may be a commoner, but just read the damn thing start to finish and google every word you dont understand. I am also a commoner and thats exactly what I'm doing. Case you have no excuse. Anyway, with the massive caveat that all that follows may be nonsense my take is as follows: Consistent logical rules can be applied to predict quantum events, where there are no simple rational answers generated that can be applied to everyday understanding of reality. Simple real events however also obey consistent logical rules. Both sets of logical rules are correct but they are also different and incompatible, Topos rationalises this by suggesting types of rules operate only within distinct sets. Distinct sets can be categorised by any unifying feature, hence there are myriad possible sets that can be described and infinite possibilities in terms of types of rules governing. The real solution to any given problem will be dependent on the set in which it is framed and hence the logic that is applied to the question. From this the assignation of sets by an observer will determine in part the outcome of an experiment. As Ron describes, that process will then become iterative and you end up with fractals branching endlessley divergent from an infinite source. The "whole new logic" is the framework of topos that allows multiple sets of apparently conflicting logic types to exist and be applied to the same problem, in its-self this has no basis for decision making but is an intellectual(?) tool for setting out a wider playing field into which other theories can be slotted together in a (new) rational way. As the NS review has it, a basis for making theories rather than a basis for discovering things in themselves. The theories that are discussed relate primarily to preference/probability type rule sets rather than absolute boolean type logics and as such are somewhat akin to the extended definition of values used by Pirsig. Ron am I close? > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ron Kulp > Sent: 27 April 2007 13:01 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] Heads or tails? Topoi and MOQ prt.1 > > > [Ham] > While I appreciate your interest, frankly you've lost me with > "topography of value sets" for measurement. What, exactly, are you > trying to measure, and what does it have to do with philosophy? Since > you seem to be excited by this discovery, possibly you can > translate the > substance of TOPOS into plain English for commoners like myself. > > [Case] > I hate to almost agree with Ham twice in one day but I really need an > example of how a whole new logic would work. When there is talk of > non-Euclidian geometry it is easily explained which of Euclid's axioms > are modified and simple to see at least some of the consequences. > > While the notion of sheaves seems to relate to set theory somehow I > don't see the connection to fractal geometry. But I am all eyes and > ears. > > {Ron} > Ham, Case, > > If I gave off any inference of leveling I apologize. > > I am going to attempt to explain why I see a connection between Topos > theory > And the Metaphysics of Quality.. I am going to attempt to present this > theory in a series of posts so that any flaws in my thinking may be > singled out in lieu of the dissemination of a single large > Presentation > . So we may eliminate it as a possibility quickly , avoiding bothering > you any further on the subject. So if you smell garbage, > just holler. > > > Pirsig said, and we may all agree, all reality is comprised of value. > A complex system of value distinguished by four levels > Which all rely on the value system beneath it and are in a constant > state of change > in relation to the values of the other levels. > > Physics is a system of measuring and modeling this value. > So that mathematical expressions serve as working models of physical > reality. > Traditional physics relies on true/false logic to represent > this complex > set of values. > I argue that even the questions formed using this logic may determine > the answer > Derived. > > Topos theory maintains all reality is comprised of value. > A complex system of value distinguished by topoi > Topoi are comprised of levels of value > Which all rely on the topoi beneath it and are in a constant state of > change > In relation to the values of other topoi. > > Topoi are a body of several levels of value sets or sheafs. Sheafs are > composed of > A "topography" (like a digital terrain map with mountains and > valleys of > a specific area) which > Are comprised of value sets using a specific algebra to > measure a given > phenomena > Or model of a given phenomena within a specified range > described by the > sheaf. by using a fractile set equation based on observed Or measured > phenomena, one sheaf becomes a factor in the next sheafs equation. > > Instead of isolating a given phenomena and subjecting it to true/false > logic, you observe > Everything related to it and observe how it functions in > relation to the > values supporting it. > > > > > > > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > This email was received from the INTERNET and scanned by the > Government Secure Intranet Anti-Virus service supplied by > Cable&Wireless in partnership with MessageLabs. 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