dmb says: many things, among which...
-Basically, social darwinism is what
-you get when the concept of natural selection is applied to human --society.
-[...]It's the attitude that
-says the poor are poor because they're unfit, unable to adapt.
yes, this is historically what was called social darwinism, and by the
stigma with which it is handled, clearly we all agree that it amounted to quite
a bothersome fantasy.
the idea, you claim, is that "Basically, social darwinism is what you get
when the concept of natural selection is applied to human society."
i believe "basically" to be understating. this was its historical meaning,
but we have no deep reason to believe that the concept of evolution was applied
correctly to society. in fact, we have much reason, given its obvious
shortcomings, to doubt the merits of the reasoning behind it. notice i did not
requote dmb in the underlined portion. i think also, that it is possible that
the oh so common expression 'natural selection' is misunderstood,
misinterpreted, and thus misconceived. so perhaps they applied 'natural
selection' to society, yet knew nothing of true cultural evolution.
in this case, an argument against "social darwinism" (in its historical
meaning) is an argument against what you yourself call "a particular set of
doctrines about the nature of social level evolution". doctrines are
constructions of men, and are more than shown to be fallible. so please, argue
all you wish against it, i will argue along side with you, but i will never
admit that the application of evolutionary principles has been applied to
society correctly. we are just now only beginning to understand the
evolutionary principles manifest in cultural evolution. The difference between
biological evolution and cultural evolution clearly exist, and i do not believe
any scientist/philosopher truly expects there to be a one to one correspondence
between bioevolutionary theory and any emerging memetic/social evolutionary
theory.
in this age, feel free to look around, noticing that it is the material
drives of the upper class, and the manifest (induced) drives which this made
possible for the middle class that is creating the present unsustainable
culture, consuming itself faster than it can self replenish. this tactic is
quite unfit for survival. curious that perhaps the more diligent and altruistic
of the world were considered to be the ones that were "unfit". curious; i think
they are farther along on a better path. you may claim that the argument is
that they are "unable to adapt". but i ask, is a parasitic organism, which
relies on a host for survival (as the upper class relies upon the lower
classes) considered more fit than a self sustaining host? no. they are not in
competition as organisms, it is a moot notion, since they do not compete for a
common resource. the one is the resource for the other, which simply struggles
then to feed two. it is necessary to realize the classes as
social/cultural phenomena, and not biological phenomena (though dependant upon
it, it is emergent more importantly), thus the cultural resources can be
reconsidered, not as the requirements of physical well being, but as the value
definitions and array of qualities; money, information, beneficial
relationships/positions.
you ask what this has to do with the moq. any thing that has to do with
evolution has to do with the moq. but the historical argument about socially
darwinistic ideologies, are simply a lesson in "bad quality", by which i mean,
a dynamic cultural element making a collective value distinction, and it not
working out too well.
you ask,
"If it doesn't fit, as I'm saying, then what can we say about evolution at the
social level?"
we can say as much as we wish. we need only be critical audience to
ourselves in parallel.
ralph
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