Krimel said to dmb:
...Wilber uses the same logic and for the same purpose. Wilber rejects
evolutionary theory just like the fundamentalists. He agrees for an
immaterial Spirit or conscious purpose in the universe, just like the
fundamentalist.
dmb says:
Elsewhere in this thread you complained that the topic was getting to large
and asked if there is a core issue we should focus on. Well, I think this is
it. As Keith suggested, it seems you are not able to distinquish
fundamentalism from Wilber's notion of "Spirit". He does not reject
evolution nor does he claim there is a "conscious purpose in the universe".
Rather, he's saying that the universe IS the evolution of consciousness.
He's saying that there is some level of awareness in every entity, that
consciousness is inherent at every level or stage. He calls this "Spirit" so
that we do not conclude that consciousness is limited to ego consciousness,
subjective consciousness of the Cartesian self or any of the usual
definitions.
He's trying to overcome the common belief that we have to choose between
spiritually empty science or intellectually empty religion. In that light,
his attack on scientific materialism is perfectly consistant with an equally
vigorous attack on fundamentalism.
"...But with the rise of moderrnity and its inherent claim that all
religions are childish productions, many fundamentalists (especially
Christianity and Islam) began to deny even the basic facts of science
itself: evolution does not exist, the Earth was literally created in six
days, radiocarbon dating is a fraud and so on. It has been pointed out, for
example, that the extremism of Islamic fundamentalists is not so much an
inherent aspect of Islam as it is a product of a wild counterreattion to
modernity's attempt to terrorize and kill spirituality in general. In a wild
panic, the fundamentalists have become counterterrorists.
This does not in any way excuse terrorism; I beleive that many of the
religious sentifment of humankind are indeed a childish hangover and
eventually need to be surrendered. Most fundamentalists, in this sense, are
indeed refusing to grow up cognitively. But it does point out the intense
emotions involved in this battle of modernity, this battle to find aplace
for both science and religion, truth and meaning, logic and God, facts and
Spirit, evidence and the eternal." Marriage of Sense and Soul: Integrating
Science and Religion 1999, page 16-17
"And if religion is to survive in a viable form in the modern world, it must
be willing to jettison its bogus claims, just as narrow science must be
willing to jettison its reductionistic imperialism." p165
[He and Pirsig both reject the limits of SENSORY empiricism and insist that
sense experience is hardly the only kind that counts.]
"Because evidence undoes mythology, mythology intrinsically hides from
evidence. Thus mythology is - and historically has been - a massive source
of personal and social oppression. ..It is no accident that wars fought in
whole or in part in the name of a particular mythic Deity have historically
killed more human beings than any other intentional force on the planet. The
Enlightenment pointed out - quite rightly - that religious claims hiding
from evidence are not the voice of God or Goddess, but merely the voice of
men or women, who usually come with big guns and bigger egos. Power, not
truth, drives claims that hide from evidence."
As anyone can see, Wilber is no bible-thumper.
dmb
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