DM and dmb, I think in statistics this is called degrees of freedom.
Krimel ----------------------------- Dave Try this: It is all about the relationship between actual, possible, impossible. Go back to the big bang. There is only energy actually formed. At this point the extent of the possible is at its greatest and the impossible is almost nothing. Even the basic physical constants have yet to become actual and so could take on forms quite different from the ones we know. So life may or may not become actual in this universe, but it is possible. The bang moves on, more decisions are made actual or taken. Particles emerge let's say, but maybe protons are heavier than in our universe. Suddenly the possibility of life emerging has become zero due to what has actually happened, i.e. it is now impossible. The status of the possible/impossible is entirely an aspect of the actual. My point is that what is possible/impossible is a function of the actual but it is not the same thing as the actual. Try havoing a think about this for a bit, like what your fridge tells you to. David M ----- Original Message ----- From: "david buchanan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [MD] The Trouble With Wilber > DMB said: > ...possibilites as some kind of embryonic reality waiting to be born? Yes, > new forms emerge in the process of evolution but what reason do we have to > think that these forms already existed in some other realm? > > David M replied: > ..They clearly do exist as possibles, otherwise they could not become > actual, but until they become actual they are only possible and may never > gain actual status. > > dmb says: > Sorry, but I just don't see how this realm of possibility follows from the > existence of the actual. I see no reason at all to suppose any such > "eternal > objects", let alone a good reason. Without that, its just > crypto-theological > fantasy. Like I said, "The idea that possibilities are somehow out there > waiting to become actual... Well, I think that's very, very goofy. > > DM replied: > But we have a distinction. The impossible is not available. > > dmb says: > Gee, ya think? I was really hoping for the impossible. (Another trivial > point.) Does this distinction somehow rest on the existence of eternal > objects? Of course not. You're backing absurdities with platitudes instead > of reasons. This does not help. > > DM said: > We can view the world from space, but we postulated its wholeness beyond > our > experience before we could imagine flying away from it. Pirsig draws our > attention to experience, but he also suggests we need an intellectual > level. > Exploring the possible, imagination, the impossible and other postulates > is > essential. > > dmb says: > Huh? Are you saying that intellectual activity, exploration, imagination > and > such are something other than experience? Are you talking about > "experience" > as if excludes anything outside of the range of your senses, and the > transcendent is that which with you no longer have actual visual contact? > Experience is transcended because there were postulations about the > wholeness of the earth prior to photos from space? In this context, where > i > have been going on about the limits of sensory empiricism and the MOQ's > expansion, these are very, very odd things to say. In any case, nobody is > saying the future doesn't exist, or that evolution doesn't exist or that > the > imagination is unimportant. > > But I just can't get past the assertion that possibilites are some kind of > "eternal object" and that they exist in some other realm waiting to become > actual. I don't don't see how a contemporary adult could accept such a > goofy > idea. I find it impossible to take such things seriously. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
